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 vagyr AI missing?
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| zzzztz |
Posted on 04-03-2006 03:50
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 Posts: 9 Joined: March 02 2006 |
anyways i been playing V8.0 Phase I beta lately, i cant help but notice that expert vagyr is extreamly slow, usually they get totaly owned by HGN expert AI (i did a 3v2, then i killed myself and watched it) when HGN are pumping out DD/BB class ships, poor vagyr is still making tons of FF or lower. usually vagyr finish building the first capital ship when HGN already have 2 in their face. i also noticed HGN BV/BBs are extreamly powerful, even when at half health, it took out a half health battlecarrier and a full health Al-Khalid just before it went boom. Also, HGN start out with a assault capital ship (AxCarrier), the AI will send it to attack, one almost destoried a mothership, i think vagyr start with 2 carrier, none of which are for assault, they just sit there collect RU, i think the battlecarrier should be classified as a BB or something, so it doesnt just camp with collectors |
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| Berrik |
Posted on 04-03-2006 04:15
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 Posts: 34 Joined: September 10 2005 |
This is because the Higaarans can build all of their best units right out of the box thanks to starting with the ACV. Not really balanced, but then, things are skewed in favor of the Higaarans quite a bit at the moment. *shrug* Edited by Berrik on 04-03-2006 04:16 |
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| Inert |
Posted on 04-03-2006 05:47
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 Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
One of the carriers is a battle carrier. And the vaygr are centralized around frigates and strikecraft. Compare the number of frigates and fighters to the Hiigaran, they outclass them nearly 2 to 1. That's why they are more intent on building frigates than capital ships right off the bat. That, and what B.F.C. said. |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 04-03-2006 14:41
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 Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
Bias!! oh and a quick question on the ai; can it be given attack patterns to fully utilize 3D space or attack from unexpected vectors? -Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| Berrik |
Posted on 04-03-2006 17:46
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Posts: 34 Joined: September 10 2005 |
Not exactly. Disabling the automatic horizontal aligning can be done, but it makes very wierd things happen. |
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| zzzztz |
Posted on 04-03-2006 19:07
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Posts: 9 Joined: March 02 2006 |
you can play on maps with RU on top/bottom, then you can have at least some 3D attack |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 04-03-2006 21:03
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Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
can there be allotments for a degree range so over the long tun that the angels could increase and that eventual attack angel from above and below would be a greater 'altitude' than being on the horizontal one.
-Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| Berrik |
Posted on 05-03-2006 09:08
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Posts: 34 Joined: September 10 2005 |
Quote Inert wrote: One of the carriers is a battle carrier. And the vaygr are centralized around frigates and strikecraft. Compare the number of frigates and fighters to the Hiigaran, they outclass them nearly 2 to 1. That's why they are more intent on building frigates than capital ships right off the bat. That, and what B.F.C. said. It's also worth noting that the Higaarans can have a CL or a monitor out within minutes of the game beginning, for less resources than it will take the Vaygr player to even begin frigate production. Once that happens there's not much the Vaygr player can do besides hope the other player is dumb. And I'm pretty sure most of the Hig players here are quite capable of micromanaging a CL to destroy all the stuff the Vaygr can have out at that point. Edited by Berrik on 05-03-2006 09:10 |
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| Inert |
Posted on 05-03-2006 21:05
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Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
And vice-versa. Micromanagement of capital ships is the key difference between success and failure. Even a vaygr battle carrier can defeat a liir-hra. |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 05-03-2006 23:34
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 Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
"oh and a quick question on the ai; can it be given attack patterns to fully utilize 3D space or attack from unexpected vectors? " Yes. In 7.4 XD DHG 63 duel. Play that. Or die. |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 06-03-2006 00:08
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Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
my god.... did I implement something that will be my own undoing? Why... why do I always seem to in-advertantly make changes for the better and more exciting.... I am cursed by my muse-like abilites...
-Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 06-03-2006 03:49
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Must be the red star, that's all I can think of. |
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| Berrik |
Posted on 06-03-2006 08:42
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Posts: 34 Joined: September 10 2005 |
Quote Inert wrote: And vice-versa. Micromanagement of capital ships is the key difference between success and failure. Even a vaygr battle carrier can defeat a liir-hra. Except, um, a Sorc isn't fast and maneuverable enough to kite entire fleets to death like the CL can. Not to mention the comparison fails since the Higaaran player can hae one out before the Vaygr player can even have a shipyard. What you need to build a Sorc: -Research Module -Cap ship facility -3500 RU What the Hig player needs to build a CL right out of the gate: -3000 RU -His ACV The Hig player can do this with his STARTING CASH. If he feels like building a few more collectors in the process, he can also recycle his starting carrier and some of the high tech frigates he starts with as well, for an even nicer nest egg compared to his Vaygr counterpart. I'd even argue the Hig player needs to conduct little or no research-- especially not for the Tier IV. It's cheaper overall to build the more expensive capital ships from the ACV or a Marquess and save yourself the trouble of researching and building on the shipyard. Edited by Berrik on 06-03-2006 08:47 |
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| Sun Tzu |
Posted on 06-03-2006 11:30
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 Posts: 528 Joined: September 08 2005 |
Also the Vaygr AI is tuned to spend money on research twice more often than the Hiigaran AI. Its building behavior becomes similar to the Hiigaran's when all research is done. EDIT: this being said, what would -you- build to counter lonely LiirHa raids? We can try and give a hand to the poor Vaygr CPU and tell it what to do. Edited by Sun Tzu on 06-03-2006 16:35 |
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| Inert |
Posted on 06-03-2006 23:04
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Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
Quote Bogodynamic Flux Capacitor wrote: Not to mention the comparison fails since the Higaaran player can hae one out before the Vaygr player can even have a shipyard. As of what I remember, you start off with a sorcerress. |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 06-03-2006 23:17
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
No you start off with the Lebanese pop star. (Nancy Ajram) |
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| Ironwatsas |
Posted on 06-03-2006 23:25
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 Posts: 856 Joined: October 21 2005 |
Why? |
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| Inert |
Posted on 07-03-2006 00:46
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Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
Isn't that pop-star equipped like a sorceress? |
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| Berrik |
Posted on 07-03-2006 01:01
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Posts: 34 Joined: September 10 2005 |
Quote Inert wrote: Isn't that pop-star equipped like a sorceress? No. It is vgr_scoutcarrier, not vgr_strikecarrier. Basically it's the Vaygr version of that Hig recon carrier with the stellar occlusion thing, except worse, since it can't produce any fighters or anything and it's only additional weapons are two more missile pods than the normal carrier. |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 07-03-2006 02:35
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
For certain obvious reasons, Inert's observation is more correct than the later one. I employ the NA and the starting CVs as strike assets to rapidly deploy large numbers of low-cost fighters and corvettes. NA doubles as a fire support platform with her bow quad ACs. With a very high emphasis on detection and electronics ability in the 7.4 battlespace, you can be sure to see a much more effective NA equivalent in the Vagyr order of battle. Edited by TelQuessir on 07-03-2006 02:37 |
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