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Ground Warfare in PDS
I've opened this thread to disscus all ground combat in the PDSverse. This thread will disscus infintry combat and weapons, armored vehicle/tank combat, use of ASCA/spacecraft in planetary fighting, and descriptions of weapons/vehicles/equipment used in planetary fighting. First up, infintry and there role, tactics, weapons, etc.
i would imagine infantry would use similar full body suits like what pilots wear. it would probably by air tight and thus protect against bio and chemical weapons. the suit would also probably be designed to regulate body temperature, i.e. protect against cold, and cool against extreme heat. A helmet with built in communications and possibly even some kind of digital overlay providing for a HUD in combat. (im going to stop using i would imagine now...) weapons are linked to the HUD display so basically you have cross hairs in combat. weapons with scopes could have PIP amplification (think silent scope if anyones played that). Helmet would also do the standard night vision/infared etc. Friend or foe ID would also be present and friendlies on the field could be IDed on the HUD.

Suit consists of two major layers. A kevlarish soft suit covers the whole body and protects against shrapenl and small arms fire. A solid anti-piercing plate armor covers the torso. Helmet is made of same material. Heavy infantry could possibly sport additional pieces of armor to cover appendages. Soft suit contains a layer of synthetic coagulative that hardens rapidly on contact with air. Its purpose is to rapidly stop bleeding by pouring into a wound and then coagulating. Would also seal the soft suit again.

I have no idea how small energy sources are currently so i cant comment on whether weapons would be kinetic or energy based. Feel free to take or shred whatever you like.
Edited by RagingBlueWind on 28-10-2005 06:46
for blueprints on the new HGN spaceborne marines. I don't know if they are final, but they rock. :thumb::thumb::thumb:
[i]"O Maker, help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, help us to lay waste their humble homes with a rain of fire; help us to wring the hea
Infintry mounted energy weapons would most likley be bulky (rocket launcher sized) but feasable. I would imagine the Hiigarans would have a shoulder mounted man portable light plasma cannon used for anti-vehicle use. Probobly not hot enough th severly damage tanks or heavy armored vehicles, but shoot it at a 6x8 truck or jeep (if there is such a thing in the PDSverse, though I imagine there would) and good night Charlie. The Vaygr equivilent would be a (large) rifle sized plasma DEW used as an anti armor/heavy sniper rifle. These weapons would be bulky and would require specal training to use and would not be very effective against other infintry. Most energy weapons would be vehicle mounted i.e, 87mm PIC mounted on a tank. Moast infintry weapons would be light, ballistic, easy to use weapons with built in electronic linkup. other weapons might consist of knives/swords (yes swords) in situations that require subtelty or in hazardous environments (near fuel tanks, on board pressureized spacecraft, Atlantic city, etc), flamethrowers and chainsaws in urban environments, and other equipment i.e landmines, grenades, non leathal weapons, C4s, signal flares, portable sattelite linkups, medical gear, electronic door openers, etc.
Edited by Ironwatsas on 28-10-2005 10:48
Swords/bayonets: One of the best close in weapons available. It never runs out of ammo, and only and idiot charges a soldier carrying a blade weapon.
Wash - "This is going to get pretty interesting"
Mal - "Define Interesting"
Wash - "Oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?"

Still flying!
Light, elite, non-powerarmoured infantry would be used for recon/foward roles (Such as sabotaging planetary defense weaponry before the main army lands), dropped by either droppods or fast shuttles.

Weaponry would be light rifles largest, for they should be operating by stealth/speed, not by blasting their way in. Handguns should be a compulsory backup. Close combat weaponry would be serrated monomolecular blades as standard, and if we have energy weapons (HALO style: Plasma-based blade contained within a magnetic field, or whatever can be thought of), limit them to officers and the best of the best (Think Warhammer 40k).

Padded boots would reduce sound produced when running, and their armor should be of a flexible material with no external metallic parts or gear webbing, also to reduce sound. They wouldn't be wearing helmets either, rather, a small earpiece for comms and a single-eyepiece visor for crosshairs and HUD. This would make it less cumbersome and wouldn't limit their senses, either.

If they're operating in vacuum, or hazardous environments, I suppose they could swap out their gear for thin vacuum suits with helmets, though this would severely limit them to make them no better than normal spaceborne marines.

I think that they should be limited for operations with a safe environment and atmosphere.

Edit: Just a thought..Would chemical-/fuel-based flamethrowers still be banned this far in the future? For humanitarian reasons, like a future kind of Geneva Convention.
Edited by Drachen on 28-10-2005 13:41
Here's an infantry weapon list to work off of


::9mm handgun::
reliable light infantry pistol used as a sidearm for all HGN military personel. with an 8 round clip and relible accuracy, this weapon is the staple handgun for taking down lightly armored opponents.

::magnum revolver::
Simple, reliable, powerful, these words come to mind when thinking of the magnum revolver. Commonly seen in use by civilans and military alike. On the frontier worlds this is how you learned to count to 6. Against lightly armored opponents this is the best handgun you can lay your hands on.

::9mm automatic::
Basicly this is a 9mm handgun modified to be fully automatic. With an enlarged 35 round clip this weapon is a very effective macine pistol. In the right hands this weapon is very efficeint even aginst moderatly armored opponents.

::12mm machine pistol::
A home grown machine pistol far more powerful than it's 9mm cousin. it holds 40 rounds and has an electronic helmet jack. it can fire a 3 round burst usally sufficent to take down the average infantryman, or a fully automatic onslaught.

::Tactical 12 gauge::
Your average 12 gauge, pump action, 8 round, all porpose boomstick. Very effective within 8 meters and can send moderatly armored opponents flying. Bad thing to stand in front of.

::7.62mm SMG::
This weapon was desined for close in urban combat. Good all rounder. With a 30 round clip or 70 round drum and helmet linkup built in, this weapon is feared by lightly armored opponents.

::15.45mm assault rifle::
Standard issue for HGN marines, but commonly seen throughout the galaxy. with a laser sight, helmet link, and 50 round clip, this weapon can even kill heavely armored infintry. this weapon also features removeable grenade launcher/bayonet mount for anti armor/close in work.

::17.45mm sniper rifle::
A heavy but effective long range rifle capable of nailing targets at well over 1200m. Equiped with a 10x scope, built in silencer, 6 round clip, and helmet jack, this weapon can easily penatrate even vehicle armor like a hot knife through nothing.

::20mm HMG::
Not for the faint of heart, this gun is your handheld, medium range, gas powered meat grinder. with a 600 round ammo box mounted undreneath you'll have plenty 'o' pain to dish out aginst moderate to heavy armored opponents. Be careful though, after every 75 rounds give it a few seconds to cool and you'll be alright.

::40mm plasma cannon::
This is a very rare and very powerful shoulder mounted plasma cannon. used for killing light vehicles the plasma exits the barrel at a realitively cool 550' celcius. Not hot enough to burn through tank armor, but any light vehicle (and anything inside) would become toast. the weapon is semi automatic and has 5 plasma cells stored internally.

::35mm railgun::
Basiclly a tube lined internally with electromagnets, this weapon is a single shot , breech loading, railgun used for heavy sniping and anti vehicle duty. it comes with a scope and is pretty much silent This weapon fires with such velocity that it can penatrate FRIGATE class armor.

::ATAMi launcher::
ATAMi stands for anti-tank attack missile infantry. It is basiclly a disposable one shot missile launcher used exclusively for killing tanks/heavy armored vehicles. with reliable range and exellent tank killing capability, this weapon can turn the tables in favor of whoever is holding it... kinda.

::12mm flamethrower::
Just your plain ol' average napalm hose useful for torching infintry. with a very short range this weapon is only useful for certan situations where there is nothing flammible around (exept the enemy). it carries 10 litres of fire sauce (a.k.a. napalm) and can easily saturate an area. Do NOT use near fuel, home upolstry, pets, interns, headcrabs, cosmetic supplys, Los Angeleas (even though it deserves it BIG TIME), or anything else for that matter.

::Hand Grenade::
Half pound steel pineapple with a 20 meter kill radius. Be very careful when cooking it off 'cause it's got 3 seconds as opposed to the usual 5.

::Tear gas grenade::
Commonly used for non-leathel crowd control, teargas is very effictive against anything without a gas mask.

The flashbang grenade is meant to incapacitate combatants without harming them. The modern flashbang when detonated unleashes a very bright flash and loud bang temporarily blinding and deafining the opponent thereby rendering them slightly more p!$$#@ off at you than they were 5 seconds ago. the effect wears off in about 30 to 60 seconds.

::C4 charge::
Also reffered to as the Sachel charge, the C4 is a compact low yeald plastic explosive meant to blow open doors and walls. Also makes for a good AT mine. It can de detonated remotely or on a timer.

::Claymore mine::
A small, Derectional mine, used to deny an area to infantry. Very effictive in clusters.

::AT mine::
A pressure sensitive anti-tank landmine used to deny an area to ground vehicles. Very effictive in clusters.

::"Beehive" mine::
A small, dome shaped, proximity detonated, mine that when activated unleashes thousands of small, Sharp, Peices of metal cut to whirl around at leathely high speed, cutting enemy infantry to ribbons. I't gets it's name from the sound it makes when detonated. Rarely employed but effictive

A small, pistol shaped, weapon used to stun an enemy with an electrical pulse. effective at close range only.

::Beanbag shotgun::
A 12 gauge loaded with small bean bags for stunning opponents.

::Tranqulizer gun::
Usally a deer rifle loaded with tranqulizer darts for knocking opponents unconcious.

::37mm Grenade launcher::
This grenade launcher can be fittied to an assault rifle for added firepower. Modified versions of the above listed grenades are used as ammo.

This is not the final verson and is just an idea to give us something to work with.

Vaygr list coming soon.

Oh and please don't critacize this too much, it took me three hours to write.
Edited by Ironwatsas on 29-10-2005 06:03
Nice to see this topic reincarnated for the...third? Fourth? Time. Regardless, getting fresh viewpoints is always good.
Ballistic weapons for the normal stuff.. I would think that energy weapons might take a back seat for ground combat on planets with atmosphere. if atmospheric conditions like fog or rain were present, weapon effectiveness would suffer. Also, a big DEW line coming from the shooter doesn't really help you keep a low profile.

Remember that tanks in the shape of the M1A1 were in the HW2 movies....perhaps they could be mounted with energy weapons.

Also, an idea I've been playing with in my head. Hand to hand combat. I would have expected the sobani to have come up with some killer hand to hand fighting style.

I would also think that swords or knives would be curved, giving that eastern desert-like feel to the Hiigarans as Kharak was a desert world.
[i]"O Maker, help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, help us to lay waste their humble homes with a rain of fire; help us to wring the hea
Fog or rain would only effect DEWs that would be blocked by such weak particulate interference, such as lasers.

Also, why does desert melee = curved blade?
::Sentry Turret::
Triple belt-fed, air-cooled 20mm HMGs. Can be remote-linked. Heavy anti-infantry turret used for defense of important installations. Smart AI capable of FoF identification.

::Anti-tank Sentry Turret::
104mm autoloading recoiless rifle firing heavy-bore rounds. 30mm 9-barrelled water-cooled autocannon with high-explosive incendiary rounds OR depleted uranium penetrators. Can be remote-linked or manually controlled. Heavy turret used for stationary defense.

::Deployable Infantry Sentry Turret::
Quad .45 air-cooled LMGs, drum-fed. Lightweight sentry turret deployed by engineer units. Used for ad-hoc defense and controlling chokepoints. Must be manned. Prone to overheating.

::Tactical Autogun::
Small, laptop-sized sentry turret meant to be carried by special forces or infiltration units. Mounts a silenceable 7.62mm autogun (300 rounds). Smart AI capable with transponder unit capable of FoF identification.
Edited by Drachen on 28-10-2005 16:16
A lot of these exist today, or are probable in the very near future. I am surprised that there is so little discussion of non-kinetic weapontry. While a foot soldier might not carry a ray-gun, it is very likely that vehicle mounted weapons would be possible (Hammer's Slammers come to mind). It is also very possible that conventional kinetic weapons would be replaced by electomagnetically discharged weapons. A magazine would carry both the projectiles and the electric charge to fire them. Yes this assumes a technology that allows for smaller and more effiecient use of electrical energy. A very small (needle?) of super dense metal moving at hypervelocity would be a very potent weapon.

This leads to the protection of the soldier. Anything other than a hard shell of advanced material would do nothing for a soldier hit by one of these kinetic rounds. Even a needle moving at that velocity did not penetrate the material of the uniform the blunt trauma would be enough to kill or severly maime an individual (sort of like getting hit by a car). The armored combat uniform would have to have several layers to mitigate the propogation of the energy from the projectile to the soft squishes stuff residing inside. Likely all of the communications gear and life support apparatus would be draped over the front and back of the torso under the armor to act as a sort of extra layer of protection (like why the Israeli Merkava tank has the engine in front).

Do not be surprised if power assisted infantry are on the news in your lifetime.

Finally, and meant as no offense, Infintry is spelled Infantry. English is my first language and I do not claim to be good at it. But having been an infAntryman at one point, InfIntry bugs me a little.
I do not think that Infantry would have the extra layers that are required to protect against magnetically accelerated 'needles', this would be what the ASCAs are for.
Concerning land vehicles, tanks and Jeeps would probably have weapons similar to the light armaments on the space ships, though having Energy weapons would depend on the size of fusion reactors, whether they can be shrunk to tank size, unless the energy is stored in batteries.
Seems like it was years since I was last here
At this stage, I assume any ground combat is done via low atmosphere strikecraft and combat suit.
i think micro nuclear Anti armor rockets would be more efficent than some shoulder mounted plasma cannon. its faster reload, no overheating (which will be aproblem in atmosphere where there isnt the cold of space to cool everything), and would be smaller.

alot of the weapons listed i think are TOO close to modern days. you'd think with ion cannons and hyperspace that they could have at least improved hand held ballistics a little more than just that. i would imagine bullets would get smaller as muzzle velocity increases. possible caseless ammunition to reduce weight/add more per clip. ultra high performance gunpower/explosive charge that would greatly increase muzzle velocity. muzzles made out of material that wont degrade after so many rounds. standard issue weapon would probably be some kind of assault rifle, with a handgun as secondary. close quarters would use either combat shotgun or SMG. Heavy infantry could possibly sport HMG/minigun or armor piercing cannon. I think an energy based sniper rifle would be inefficent because it would reveal the position of the sniper. I propose railgun sniper rifle. Ultra high velocity rounds could easily pierce through personal armor and probably even light vehcile armor. Shot wouldn't be traceable back to sniper which is important.

Now this hand to hand stuff. Soldiers would be trained in military martial arts, i.e. Russian Systema which focuses soley on efficency and dealing with multiple attackers. I dont think swords or bayonettes would be a good idea. they've been gone for a long time for a reason. guns are better. and secondly, i dont forsee much trench warfare in the PDS world. i think most ground fighting would be limited to close urban combat where ground level precision is necessary. in which case, ud have ASCA support neways. a think at most, soldiers should be given a knife for utility purpose and in those few instances when he or she has absolutely nothing left to use. even then though, i dont think melee weapons will pose much of a threat to soldiers especially with the armor i described. full paded futuristic kevlar is designed to stop bullets and shrapenel... youd have to be pretty damn strong to punch through that. and theres no question the solid anti-piericng armor would provide ample protection against a knife or even a sword.
Good point. they did think of a nuclear bazooka back in 'the day'. I think it was called the Davy Crockett, and it did't work out that well. in the PDSverse, I severley doubt that any sane (Hiigaran) commander, would arm his troops with a handheald nuke, or that any of the troops would go anywhere near it. Everything else you wrote seems to make some sense.

Caseless ammunition is standard on some weapons, others i.e. magnum, tactical 12 gauge, SMG, etc, have standard un caseless ammo. Railgun sniper weapons are fairly commonplace, but their weakness is ammo, a very big, very heavy, single shot steel slug weaghing almost half as much as the weapon itself.

Hand to hand combat would in this case be just as futile as using bladed weapons. although it would be very interesting to see two heavily armored guys trying to punch each other's lights out, but they can't beacause thev've got full combat armor.

But everything elese seems to be in order here.
Why have soldiers in suits when you can have soldiers in mechanized armour? Something like the Spartans of Halo would be extremely efficient, combined with integral weapon systems that are automatically controlled.
Well that dosn't mean they would'nt have a 9mm. Everyone in a modern military needs a sidearm. It's been that way since the invention of ranged weapons.

If you have a better idea please submit it in the same fashion all other weapon ideas have been submited so far.
@Inert: For several reasons: Elite infiltration/recon infantry need the flexibility and stealth of suits instead of powered armour, it would be too expensive for green, cannon-fodder militia infantry, some backwater (or low tech) worlds wouldn't have the production facilities for mechanized armour, draft regiments wouldn't have time to train with the suits if they were conscripted and shipped out.

@Ironwatsas: Sorry, but never once did I mention 9mm weaponry. Sidearms special ops carry would at least be .45 or the equivalent of .50AE. Anyways, 9mm rounds are small, lightweight, with enough to stop an unarmored person and are relatively cheap to produce and can be easily manufactured on backwater planets.
Why would there be recon with UAVs and satelite tracking systems? There shouldn't be any reason to waste personnel on a scouting mission.

And you act as though training in a mechanized armour is different than basic training with weapons.
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