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Inert's History of the Bentusi
TelQuessir
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Elendil
The history is so similar to the Kushans from Homeworld........from the exodus from their original homeworld, and to finding the first core in the sand....it would be better to have something else apart from this overused plot device.
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TelQuessir
In that case, you've just volunteered to suggest a new direction for the history in this thread.

At the very least, that will spur constructive discussion on the subject. Get that done.
 
Elendil
Also might I add my two cents to the idea of having renegrade bentusi helping out the exiles - yeah good idea but the point of helping the Hiigaran's hide and then retreve the hyperspace core is a bit unrealistic as already we know that never happened in the "Hstory of Hiigara" And yes it was a good attempt to explain the obvious plotholes between H and H2 but the idea isn't all that strong considering we never see any of the tradeships being destroyed when the Bentus blew up....
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Elendil
Ok then - to start don't use the same old trick of having them forced to leave a planet and travel in sublight transporters and generally spend several generations searching for a planet. We saw this trick once in Hoemworld, would be good to have something else - for the time being this will remain unclear.

Secondly once the Bentusi gets a new homeworld, it would be better not to have the same satiellite discovers the core plot device. Rather I would like it to be found in another way, since the Vaygr's found it in an ice lattice, why not find it in some old delerict in a nebula?

the early history of bentusi also needs to be discussed - Instead of them being reluctantly being forced to build the harbourship - it is clear from the known information of the Bentusi that they started off as a war going race as well, and because of their huge technological gap to the rest of the galaxy, they became arrogant and satistified in acting as galaxy leaders. The harbour ship was at first the strongest ship in the whole galaxy and only after destroying the Hiigarans, guilt forced them to abandon most of their destructive weaponry-it is clear they kept some for defence.

More on their "unbound" nature next time...
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Elendil
Well I have to disagree with inert over the issue of the first unbounds in the race of the Bentusi. In the history of the bentusi it stated - due to slow response times of communication in the mothership a new system was needed, like Karen S'jet's idea - to me this really nailed the history as being a backstory of the Bentusi with large ammounts of reference and relation to the hiigaran tale. To me the bentusi is a race of unbounds, for them to develop like the Hiigarans is very slim, sure they might have started like that - for all we know the Hiiagrans might end up as unbounds- but surely it did not arise over somethign like the building of a new colony ship (which is the same story as the Homeworld return)....I would rather have them anturally evolving or slowing gaining sue of this superior technolgy.
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zenprime
The Cult of Lacus agrees.

I'm tired of seeing this sort of plot "recycling."

-The Bentusi actually being spawned by another culture (See Hiigaran to Kadeshi) might be interesting, but taking place over a much longer time period.

-Why does everyone have to move to the same planet? Why does everyone have to leave? Given that the Bentusi are "unbound/cybernetic/whatever" an group(millions/billions) of the race/culture that spawned the Bentusi could have been off exploring the galaxy when then their home system went nova/internal conflict/technological disaster destroyed it/rendered unusable.

-Why must they be forced off? Leaving could have been a near unamious decision to restore the biosphere or give other lifeforms a chance.

-Leaving things for the Hiigaran/Taiidan to use/discover is interesting, but let's not make it be large obvious things to link stories with. HW1's Ghost Ship included.

-Hyperspace core hmmmm. Instead of finding it themselves, they could have acquried it through trading, or taken it by force from another race that found it and was trying to utilize it as a weapon against an advanced foe, the Bentusi. Erm kinda mirrors the whole Hiigaran thing, though it could have happened early in their spacefaring. Heck it could have been a civil war between the unbound Bentusi, and those Bentusi that refused to live in such a way.
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Inert
Okay, let's discuss.

1) I don't know what you mean by being spawned by another culture. Please restate.

2) First, you must know where I got the idea of the origins of the Bentusi. Contrary to popular belief, I did not simply copy and paste the Hiigaran profile here. You must know nature likes pattern, and obviously two cultures with the same circumstances will not differ much.

The Bentusi were based off the Bantu. The Bantu left their original home because it was drying up, and migrated south. It is there that they became traders (now you realize why I chose the Bantu) and was able to easily communicate with other tribes (though the language was different).

3) If I ever met a environment-safe culture, I'll tell you. *points to humanity*

4) Like I said, like-circumstances lead to like-paths.

5) No one would trade something like this. Secondly, the Bentusi are not crazy. You don't go attacking other races just to steal stuff. At least not well cultured people like the Bentusi.
 
Elendil
Did not copy the Hiigaran profile yes but the general plot remains the same - heck leaving a planet is acceptable but in colony ships with similarities to the hiiagran ones and almsot in equal circumstances? That is way too much of a coincidence. Next on the list is the use of a satillite plot trick to discover the first core.....I mean that was how the second core was found - exact same thing happened in homeworld backstory.....Next is how unbound came into effect, right now according to Inert's history it arosed because of the same problems the bentusi faced in co-ordinating response times on a alrge colony ship, in order toefficeintly co-ordinate everything, they became unbound much like Karen S'Jet. It wouldn't be a bad way to introduce their unique unbound technology if it didn't have such blatant rip ofs from the homeworld backstroy. It would be better to show how this unbound nature worked without reference to a colony ship in need of a neurolink connection or else it fails plot...

Here is my biggest worry over a history for the Bentusi, from the agmes we discover that they are all unbound, meaning they msut have reached their evolutionary peaks, unbound technology is probaly the limit of their evolutionary cycle. However if we are to take the diea that unbounds arose with complications on a major colony ship, then questions will ahve to be answered. If it was used on the habour ship only as a way to relieve conjestiona nd improve communication, it can hardly spread outwards to emcompose all the bentusi (for example despite Karen's link to the core, she remains the only one in the entire fleet to have a neurolink...)

And the Bentusi are hardly cultured fromt heir beginings, they were arogent and foolhardly and acted as galaxy police trying to limit over race's freedom. It was until the destruction of the Hiigaran fleet that the Bentusi regretted their actions....


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zenprime
1. By spawned by another culture I ment as in the Bentusi wasn't originally the race name of the people who would become the Bentusi.

The Bentusi at one point were Race A. Education/Profession/Religion/Hobby spawned a group that called itself the Bentusi. Whatever happened to Race A, the Bentusi were majority/only survivors.

2. I wasn't saying you did a cut-and-paste. I just dislike the similarities to the Hiigaran backstory.

3. It was just an idea.

4. Like-circumstances do lead to like paths. As long as the mindset is the same.

5. Someone traded New York for trinkets, the Louisiana Purchase, ebay. Someone's trash is another persons treasure. If a nation on earth discovered a hyperspace core, but didn't know what it was or it's purpose, but refused to sell it, trade it, or allow access to it, whould you go war too acquire it? Knowning that they/or someone else might figure out what it is and use it against you? If the Hiigarans had surrendered to the Bentusi during their battle, I highly doubt the Bentusi would not have taken the core for themselves. Wow. That came out paranoid.

Well cultured they might have been, but it's just too nice, like good parents. Though that may be the efforts of Bentusi censoring, those who write history don't want to appear like monsters.

Oh reading through the History of Hiigara document, unbound appears to refer to gift of Hyperspace. Unbound, the power of great hyperpace core.
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zenprime
Karen is no longer unique in having a neurolink. History of Hiigara notes there were more capable, better trained people possesing the same neural link.
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Inert
If you plan to pick at the plot similarities between the Hiigaran and the Bentusi, then go ahead. I made this history to coincide with every single aspect of the homeworld universe, whether cataclysm, homeworld 1, or homeworld 2, because frankly the Bentusi are inconsistant throughout all three phases. In keeping with this restriction, give some more thought whether to adjust a storyline or not, and whether it is really required, or to ease your mind.

@Elindil: Now, I disagree that unbound means being on your evolutionary peak. Unbound in the context that I use means connected to your hyperspace core and being free from normal space. I don't know how you could interpret it any other way.

Secondly, the Bentusi are cultured in the sense that they are wise. They are one of the older races among the stars, and you should know that. They are not arrogant and foolhardy in trying to establish what we like to call peace. This was something readily attainable, but obviously no one wanted it. People want to be better then others, individuality urges them on. So that's why there's no such peace in the galaxy, not because the Bentusi were arrogant but because the galaxy is selfish. What had the Bentusi done but try to establish peace?

@zenprime:
1) I see your point but nevertheless that is added weight to the storyline that does not have any impact.

2) Dislike and requirement are two different things, I assure you there was a lot of dislike from me but requirements had to be met.

3) I was being humorous.

4) There is no reason to doubt both the Hiigarans and the Bentusi desire justice and peace, two important factors. Mindset is not the same, granted, but like-minds can still yield like-results.

5) If one species could not figure out what an item is by studying it, how would the Bentusi realize something at a glance? I think alien spies have some distinctly conspicious qualities that give them away.

Lastly, Karen is no longer unique in having a neurolink, infact she never was. Anyone could've taken it, but she herself took it. And the Hiigarans don't support anyone more then Karen Sjet.
 
zenprime
Edit: I am a whore of the english languageAngry

I just generally dislike the whole "fleeing a doomed world" going on. Though a Bentusi homeworld is out of the question in my mind either. The point of Bentusi being a subgroup of another race, extinct or unknowing of shared origin was move them away from planetary existance. They left to travel the stars.

Maybe I'm just fretting about the framework left to work with. The Bentusi have far to long been a method of advancing the plot.

My point about one species not being to figure out what the Great core was that the Bentusi were so far advanced then any other species they came into contact with. My idea was that their own investigations into FTL had given them at least a basic idea of the arrangement and construction of a core, if they hadn't built one themselves at the time.

Quote

If one species could not figure out what an item is by studying it, how would the Bentusi realize something at a glance? I think alien spies have some distinctly conspicious qualities that give them away.


It's easy to infer something might be important by how much interst someone shows in it. - But this is getting off topic I believe.

And my comment about the neurolink was for Elendil who for the second time now has been writing a post while I was. Though I believe Karen was the only one possing one at the time of the HW1. The manual states that the she refused the use of the technology on anyone then herself. Making her unique at that time.
Edited by zenprime on 19-10-2005 07:36
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Elendil
If unbound is not an evolutionary peak, explain the lack of progress once the Bentusi reched this state of "unboundness" For all we know, it might be for them....

And yes my reference for a neurolink is to show that this is an example of showing how unbound evolved- explaining how some technology are implemented on a small scale to a small number of the population only and not to an entire rqace. if this is the case, it is hardly likely the Bentusi will adopt a technology used only in the last minute with no significant advantages and tailor it for their entire race.

And how did the Bentusi act when they were a younger race, it was only the fact that they have been around far longer than any other race that made them peaceful and wise. In the begining they too made mistakes, they were never perfect when they started. They withheld FTL technology (logically) but also tried to impose their control over the galaxy-if I am not wrong I believe that is some form of repressive government is it not? In their desire for peace they stomped down hard on any developing races who overstepped their mark. It was until the inability of the great fleet to contain each new spacefaring nation that lead the Bentusi to adopt new methods and a change in their policy and hence their more peaceful approach. They are hardly the wise peace loving guys we see in H2. If this isn't arrogance in trying to establish their imprint on the glaxy then tell me what is?
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Inert
Elendil you are seriously misinterpreting the Bentusi.

They did -not- withheld FTL travel, they built the hyperspace network remember? If you remember what that is, it is a network of gates that allowed intergalatic trade, through use of hyperspace.

Secondly, they attacked any fleet that was going to take over any other nation. Now if you take that for arrogance, I don't know what to say.
 
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