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The road to V1
Ironwatsas
At Typh's request, It's time to set in stone what assets we need to get in game for PDS2-v1. This will be our public alpha/first release candidate, and hopefully will draw in some more talent to help with model making and more advanced things later.

Currently, we have

  1. Juiced up Skirmish Mode d3;
  2. Ship Naming Script d3;
  3. Single-build fighters d3;
  4. Manuvering scripts d3;
  5. Point Defense Armaments d3;
  6. A few HW2 classic .hods d3;
  7. Minor AI improvements d3;
  8. Various scripts and behind the scenes stuff d3;
  9. A few custom maps, mostly from PDS classic d3;
  10. Starship Duels! d3;


However, there's still work to be done. Any public release should be decently polished to the point where it's playable and enjoyable as a mod, so people get excited about the future.

After thinking it over, and thinking about how classic PDS developed, my plan is this: We will develop the mod 'chronologically', from the Pre-Vaygr war Era, to the Postwar/Age of S'jet era. Starting "early" allows us to mostly work with vanilla assets (with buffed stats/more guns), since this time period would have taken place before new ships (which require original models, and a modeler) would exist yet.

Release-1 will cover the first part of the Vaygr War and it's immediate prelude. With the appropriate technology level to match. As time goes on, we'll add new (old) ships, and do the necessary art-passes and changes on them to make them serviceable in the new engine.

We will still need the following...

  1. Full HGN & VGR shiplist (see below)
  2. Fully operational Point Defenses on appropriate ships
  3. Flight Styles (frigate dog-fighting, nimble capships, etc)
  4. Era-Appropriate ship armaments and types
  5. At least a few 'original' (I.E. Non-Vanilla) ships, to whet the appetites of the masses
  6. Basic Operational Support Priority prototype (Off-map support)
  7. Appropriate stats, balancing, and ship behavior.
  8. Functioning skirmish AI


...which we are well on our way to getting. A few features I'd like to see, if practicable, are listed below.

  1. Playable Turanic Raiders (fairly easy to do, since they have 5 ships)
  2. Playable Taiidan (Since the Taiidan Republic would be substantial in this mod)
  3. Working concepts of the various "Secondary" mechanics discussed elsewhere
  4. "Early Assault" gamemode
  5. Additional Skirmish Maps
  6. Selectible Squadron/Single Ship option
  7. Improved skirmish AI
  8. Homeworld 1 sound effects


Other things will be added later, and this list is subject to change. We work according to our abilities, but we want to make sure our first release is of sufficient quality to attract new talent, and set the bar for future releases.

The (Non-finalized shiplist) for the v1 release is as follows, and is Subject to Change.

Hiigaran

Fighter/Drone
-Scout (FTR)
-Interceptor (Blade Mk20 FTI) d3;
-Attack Bomber (Thunderbolt Mk 1A FTA) d3;
--Light Strike Fighter (LSF)
--Defender (Cutlass Mk1 FTE)
(?)Cloaked Fighter
--Swarmer (FTD) [ideally will use HWC Swarmer model instead of a probe with a gun]

Corvette
-Gunship (Gladius A CTE)
-Pulsar Gunship (Gladius B CTA)
--Mine Layer (Caltrop MWC)

Frigate
--Escort Frigate (Bloodhound FFE) d3;
-Assault Frigate (Resolution FFA)
--Ion Cannon Frigate (Broadsword FFI) d3;
-Defense Field/Command Frigate (Linebacker II DFG)
--Torpedo Boat (Hydra FFG)
(?)Support Frigate (Nightengale FFU) [Based on this HW2 Alpha design.]

Capital Ship
-Lineship (Arbiter DD) d3;
-Carrier (Imperitor III CV) d3;
--Light Carrier (CVL) [Based on either the old Marquess model or LeSunTzu's carrier model]
--Battlecruiser (Prince of Hiigara Tier I CA)
--Shipyard (Empress IV) d3;

Platforms

-Sentry Platform d3;
--Ion Cannon Platform
(?)Railgun Platform? [with arbiter cannons?]

Utility

-Resource Collector (CTU) d3;
-Resource Tanker (Providence) d3;
-Resource Controller (FFU) d3;
-Probe d3;
--Proximity Sensor
--Sensor Jammer
(?)Decoy
(?)Comms Beacon [Will be used to direct 'NPC' ships from off map]

NPC/Misc

--Merchant Cargo Ship (Bishop MCS) [Delivers Resources from off map]
(?)Space Station


Vaygr


Fighter
-Light Assault Craft (Pioneer AC) d3;
-Attack Bomber (Saracen ACB) d3;
--Lance Fighter (Nadir ACL)
--Heavy Assault Craft (Nachin-Gal HAC) [Intended to use TFS model instead of a bomber]
--Cannon Fighter (Sniper CAC) [Uses old Vaygr Scout]

Corvette/Sloop
--Escort Sloop (Irrish-Shel SBE)
--Assault Sloop (Thanaar-I SBA)
--Minelayer Corvette (MWC)
--Command Corvette (Subasi CTL)
(?)Gun Sloop

Frigate
-Assault Frigate (Spahi FFA) d3;
--Missile Frigate (Ansaar I FFG)
--Recon Frigate (Sufi FFL)
--Assault Transport (Hashishin FFA)
--Ion Cannon Frigate (Merkavah FFK)
(?)Support Frigate [Something using this model?]

Capital
-Frigate-Destroyer (Achamenes I DWG) d3;
--Flotilla Leader (Khalifa I DWL)
-Fleet Carrier (Kaghan CV) d3;
--Assault Carrier (Sorceress Royale)
-Battleship (Auvarnagal/Titan of Fire BB) d3;
--Shipyard (City of the Stars SY)

Platform
-Gun Turret d3;
--Missile Turret
--Hyperspace Gate
--Command Station

Utility

-Resource Collector (Type-VII CTU) d3;
-Mobile Refinery (Fortune Type-III AF) d3;
-Probe (L.O.R.E.N) d3;
--Proximity Sensor (Soothsayer XR-P)
--Sensor Dist' Probe (Veil)

NPC/Misc
--Transport Ship [For bringing in resources/supplies]


Taiidan

(TBD)


Turanic Raiders

(TBD)
Edited by Ironwatsas on 14-09-2015 02:13
 
yasotay
Sounds good to me, although I had hoped to see Liir Hra light cruiser (Mk I).
I am ancient
 
Typhoone
Iron;

Thanks for posting a roadmap! I am in general agreement on all of the features and this has allowed me to try to get into place different skeleton elements of what we need. I've started to add in bulk lots of the HW:RM ships, using the new remastered .HOD files but tuning the scripts to fit into PDS. Currently we've got the HGN Fighter and Corvette ships in the manifest. I'm going to try and complete more of HGN today and VGR tomorrow, and may get the chance to explore a few features. Importantly, the weapons are not ported over, but these will be easy to replace and tune once all the ship physical stats and manifests are brought over (and integrated into the lua libraries like auto-dock, unique ship names, ship-duel mode, etc - which is what I will work on to get us a basic fleet inventory this weekend).

We'll start a 'tuning for v1.0' thread sometime soon where once all the skeletons are in we can start hashing out HP, armor, speed, weapon, and RU/HS cost values. What is "Early Assault" game mode exactly? Is that the one that just allows you to build your own fleet from scratch? I'll put that on the list to look at importing as well. Anyone who wants to take on maps I'd be much obliged - I never really took on maps but as I understand they are something really easy to get into. We also have a /maps folder on the GitHub with several maps from other mods (not included in our source directory until we get permission). Also what is the 'swarmer' model that you are talking about? I will dig around for it.

Typh.
Edited by Typhoone on 12-09-2015 16:47
 
Ironwatsas
'Early Assault' was that mode where you got a shipyard and had between 30 seconds and a minute or so to build a fleet, then the shipyard left.

I actually made a few maps in old HW2, so I'll see if I can again this time.

The swarmer model being Cataclysm's Hive Frigate Swarmer. I.E. this thing http://shipyards.relicnews.com/somtaa...armer1.jpg. I'm sure I've seen graphically updated versions in HW2.

We can always port the LiirHra over and at the very least plop it into starship duels mode. Was it even an operational hull before the Vaygr War or still on the drawing board? Is there any fluff to when it was first introduced?
 
yasotay
No the Liir-Hra was definitely post Makaan. Was developed as the horde burned across the galaxy as a cruiser able to escort convoys with sufficient firepower to hold its own. It was more efficient at jumping because it was one of the first Hiigaran ships to benefit from reverse engineering of Progenitor tech. With the demise of the horde the new Liir-Hra Mk1 were sent out on deep reconnaissance and raids. Later versions increased armor and firepower made it the bain of Vaygr corvette and frigate formations.
I am ancient
 
Ironwatsas
It'll be added soon anyway, just not buildable with a 3G level of technology. There's no reason we can't put 4G or 5G ships in starship duels mode just to play with.

The main thing is we need to do a few art passes to make things look decent in the HWR engine. To do that we need to draw in some really badass texture artists. I'm currently on the prowl for them, if you know anyone, let me know as well!
 
mrWHO
I might be wrong but following ships are also post-3G:
--Light Carrier (CVL) [Based on either the old Marquess model or LeSunTzu's carrier model]
--Assault Corvette (Shamshir I CTA)

I think that light carrier was created about the same time and purpose as Liir-Hra for fast convoy escort and raider duty. Even more, the Light Carriers were responsible of providing fighter/corvette cover to Liir-Hra as normal carriers could not keep-up.

As for Shamshir it was Taiidan-Vaygr next gen corvette when normal Vaygr corvettes were at the end of their modernisation capabilities and HGN gained technological corvette dominance with Khopesh and Lavi.

I think that we should keep these two away from 3G as they do not fit the initial stage of the war.


Edit:
What about Higg LSF (Light strike fighter)? I think it was a 3G and it played fighter-bomber hybrid. It was very effective for anti-frigate and anti-subsytem while still able to dogfight.
 
Ironwatsas
Good point there, MrWho. While I have my reasoning (mostly to bulk up the shiplist, and because I have no good alternative) for having those particular ships in this timeframe, it may be good to wait for future versions (when we can maybe make them look prettier).

The LSF would certainly be doable, and maybe even the LiirHra. I would imagine the pre-war 3G period as a 'transitional' phase away from the 'Great Hunt' of surviving Beast infected vessels, and a period where the main military operations of the Hiigarans were commerce protection and fighting the odd Turanic Raiders or Pro-Imperialist Taiidan warlords (LSF would be quite useful for this, considering the strikecraft-heavy nature of the Raider fleet).

That's also the same reason I wanted the CVL. The version LeSunTzu has created is far different than the Marquess. I would imagine that one or the other would be a pre-war innovation, as a replacement for the HW1 support frigate, special ops carrier, and/or convoy escort.

Speaking of support frigates, I'm certain Someone, Somewhere, has made the HW2 alpha era Support/Transport frigates. Considering our auto-dock script, the way repairs work in HWRM, and the 'hyperspace re-inforcement' system, such ships would be very useful.
 
mrWHO
For 3G instead of reporpose of ships that were tailor made fo post 3G, I'd rather like to see:

- some variants of vanilla HW2 hulls (e.g. I remeber Higgy Barrlecruiser had two version: Prince of Higgara and Defiance battle carrier - we could go that way)
- some completely new hulls from other mods (if we have permission to use them)
- at worst case I'd be fine with less ships for v1 - better to have quality over quantity.

Edit: We forgot about auxilary class made on bishop freighter - there was auxilary cruiser and auxilary carrier base on them and I think both were introduced mid/late-3G
Edited by mrWHO on 13-09-2015 19:28
 
Ironwatsas
Good catch there. Well, the Defiance could work. We still have the VOs for it anyway. It might have good synergy with our 'reinforcement build' system.

The AMCs like the Callisto and Elusive Concept would make sense to exist, what with Turanic Raiders and all. Plus, they'd fit real well with all the refugees/evacuations going on with the crisis in the Taiidan Republic.

I'll see what else I can get a hold of. Battlecry has a few decent models that might make for early-war alternative ships.
 
mrWHO
It seems that HW: @ mod has some very nice models that could fit 3G (they looks like modernised HW1 ships).

Not to mention several Taiidan designs and some kickass Ferrn ships.

Edit: Battlecry? you mean models from TFS? These would be definetly nice and fit PDS style.

EDIT2: This one also has some high-quality models:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/rearm
http://www.moddb.com/mods/rearm-v2
Edited by mrWHO on 13-09-2015 22:41
 
mrWHO
I have two more ideas:

Idea one:
instead using Light Carrier model (we should use it for later 4G tech along LiirHra) why not make "Defiance Remastered/Retcon" using this:
http://www.pds.homeworldaccess.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1316

Ship class: Defiance Heavy Carrier (3G)
The additional HGN carrier class introduced shortly before the war. The idea for this ship was a improved Imperator-class that could field both better defensive power (stronger hull, more PDS, less modules/production lines inside) and offensive power (more MRAM racks) and still carry the similar amount of fighters as Imperator. The ship would be slower than Imperator, but tactical idea was that it would stick close to the Arbiter line (and that class wasn't eaxctly the devil of the speed) and provide fighter cover in conditions too dangerous for regular Imperator-class.

This would come at cost of production capabilities - like original Defiance it would be able to produce only Fighters and corvettes - no frigates nor other support modules.

At 5G this should would be moved to auxilary duties and replaced by Preator/Haarsuk Super Carriers (my favorite HGN ship BTW Smile ) that were as powerfull as Defiance class, but faster, more agile and offering full production capabilities.


Idea two:
defensive platforms rebalance. In original PDS defensive platforms were outdated and not very useful.
I think that we should repurpose them as very cheap, mass produced (bigger caplimit) specialistic platforms.

Yet again Higgs and Vaygs would approach to their platforms differently:

HGN platforms:
For Higgarans the biggest adhoc problem from Vayg was their heavy spam of cheap and numerous Strikecrafts and heavy reliance on missiles. Therefore HGN platforms focus to adress these issues.

HGN Watchdog platform - basically the PDS platform armed with two high speed PDS turrets - very effective at engaging incoming missiles especiall if placed in groups. They are also useful against Vaygr light fighters but the missiles are their main target.

HGN Bulldog platform - dual flak platform designed to engage large swarms of Vaygr fighters. Can also engage missiles, but fighters are main target.

HGN Pitbull platform - dual Pulsar platform designed for anti-corvette duty.

HGN Cerberus platform - (new model required) more massive platform that that field two turreted Frigate ion cannons, two flak cannons and four PDS turrets. All in one solution against missiles, fighters and frigates, bu vulnerable to corvettes (not enough power to fit pulsars with turreted Ions) and Capships (that can Lance them to death).


Vaygr platforms:
The Vaygr focus the platforms on the HGN fist that consist Frigates and warships. Therefore Vaygr platforms are optimized to focus on these threads.

Vay Anvil platform - dual kinetic railgun turret effective at engaging hostile frigates (also deal dammage to warship).

Vay Hammer platform - dual fusion missile platform - effective against both frigates and capships, but capship PDS require larger number of missile platforms. The Hammer strenght is the long range of the fussion missiles so you can ammas them at the second line to lob missiles at attackers while you make their PDS busy.

Vay Trebuchet platform - (new model required) basically fusion MLRS (several fusiom missile racks) with some PDS turrets. only a few of them can easily oversaturate any capship PDS.
 
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