View Thread
Point Defense Systems » Point Defense Systems Remastered Project » Point Defense Systems 2 R&D Lab
 Print Thread
Single Build vs Squadrons
We have a decision to make. Should we go with HW1 style single build strike craft or HW2 style squadrons for the new mod version?

There are valid arguments for both sides so I'll lay my cards on the table.

HW1 style single build has a few things going for it that have been brought to the table with the new engine. Old style formations are back, as are things like support frigates with external latch points. The other reason is because the ratio of fighters to capital ships seems a bit skewed, as are the amounts of individual fighters that can physically fit inside their carrier craft. The other thing is the novel ability to mix different types of fighters using formations and for commanders (or the autodock) to micromanage them during small-unit engagements (assuming they want to or like to).

HW2 squadrons on the other hand have the obvious advantages of being easier to command and control or otherwise keep track of in a larger, chaotic engagement.

I'm personally leaning toward HW1 style. And having most fighters be fairly substantial (except for blatant cannon fodder models like the Pioneer LAC or drones) and dangerous. I very much dislike paper-mache fighters, and I want to add a bit of depth to strike craft operations.

Or we could just take a third option and have some way of toggling between single build/squadrons. HWU did it. Not sure how though.
I would vote the HW1 style. It allows for a variety of interesting mechanics that I think flow very nicely with the intention to have scenarios and the like. After all, if a single ship from a squadron of 5 returns home, it pops out with 4 more ships. If we are playing a behind-enemy-lines probing carrier squadron with no resourcing capacity, where are all these other ships coming from? Why didn't we just send them out at the start?

In addition, you bring up a great point about being able to mix and match the composition of your squadrons. I've always loved the mental image of pairing something like a missile corvette with 2-3 fighters as a squadron. The corvette to pop other corvettes and harass any frigates the group comes across, meanwhile the fighters protect it against the obvious.

Being able to make those decisions on the fly makes me feel more immersed into the idea of actually being a carrier captain or a flotilla commander.
I am inclined toward HW1 combat more. However if the ability to do either ever presented itself that would be grand.
I am ancient
Well we're going with HW1 style for now. Since the majority of people I've asked seem to like it more, and it will probably have more synergy with the sorts of small-unit tactics we've been discussing.
I just had a thought: single-build fighters but what about squadron-build for drones? We can make drones fill the role of 'meat-grinder' potentially, or at least balance it and add some unique look to the battlefield (2 pilot-interceptors flying their own attack scripts engaging a drone-squadron that is following a group/squadron dogfight script). Food for thought, but I am pro-single build squadrons and the multi-unit strikegroup formation (GBX is going to be releasing that as a feature so I hear).

Well not all drones are expendable types, and I'm not sure how we're going to work them out. It'd probably vary from drone to drone.

What I wanted to do was to replace the old Kite Drone (made from a probe), with the Cataclysm Swarmer drones, which are both purpose built and more awesome (but mostly do the same thing).
I must break from the majority, because I like HW2 squadron system - it reduces micromanagement for strike crafts. Single-craft is just a canno fodder, but the squadron has enought survivability to actually get back to carrier for repairs and get back to fight.
The HW2 actually encourage player to care for it's fighter squads - I loved to launch repeated coordinated fighter/bombers strikes against these nasty Vaygr battleships, but with signle craft system the losses would be so numerous that I wouldn't bother anymore.

Edit: If that autodock script posted in other topic would get implemented into PDS then single-craft system is all green for me.
So - there is a chance we can do both with minimal work. It is feasible we can have a game rule setting (like "unit caps" or "crates Y/N") to be "Squadron Size" and set up a set of parameters like "HW1/HW2" or "1/3/5" or "Single, Few, Many" and have that dictate fighters for the match.

In classic HW, this would have required a different ship type for every fighter squadron. A different ship balanced for not only squadron size, but build cost, max health, build menu icon, etc. However, using some of the new things GBX is doing with deriving with LUA functions, we can create a hgn_interceptor with something like:

NewShipType.SquadronSize = GetProperty(Player.."getRace",gamerule.."squadsize") -- Not real code

For strikecraft, then it could be set per match, or per 'era' of PDS gameplay, and we can please both players? Something I can look into. Thoughts?

Something like that would be greate.
I have done this before in two mods already, I have a method, but is not as simple as I would like, but allows a lot of control, maybe you are interested.

Its done duplicating ship files making the necessary changes for each variant, and restricting their building using game mode setting as mentioned earlier in the thread, I also make them be recognized correctly by the AI so it can correctly calculate their value and anti-value.

It would be great to make this work using properties, but this is something I have yet to try, also don't understand entirely.
Jump to Forum