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 The Fist of God: Battle Barge spammed by AI, too powerfui?
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| thecactusman17 |
Posted on 25-09-2007 03:18
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 Posts: 5 Joined: September 25 2007 |
I've played 11.8 a fair bit lately. First, great mod: I've been playing PDS since at least ver. 4, though I'm not afraid to say that all this time later I still suck tremendously. I'm writing to make note of an important problem: Playing against the Vaygr, I see a Battle Barge immediately almost every time I destroy one. Not too bad on its own, but they have an annoying tendency to swat down my ships (ALL of them) with nigh-impunity, even when those ships are backed up by bombers, 'vettes, and frigates. What should my tactics be for taking this thing on as the Higs? I can literally max out my combat-worthy capships (full Cuisers, Arbiters, Scorns, Princes, and Maj) send them into a one-on-all and lose half (or more) of my ships against this one vessel, and fighters, vettes and Frigs fare even worse. Often, I don't even actually kill it, and it survives massive assaults that shred every other ship in the Vaygr fleet in a matter of minutes. A set of solid beam hits in sequence can drain a Super Battleship of the majority of its health and kill outright anything smaller than a Prince. Is this just a pending balance rework, or am I missing some major element of this ship's weaknesses? Any advice for dropping the things is highly appreciated. |
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| DoubleForte |
Posted on 25-09-2007 04:11
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Posts: 96 Joined: July 08 2007 |
I feel it IS overpowered, but then again it is Flagship class. Speak to Tel for more help. |
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| thecactusman17 |
Posted on 25-09-2007 04:29
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Posts: 5 Joined: September 25 2007 |
Quote DoubleForte wrote: I feel it IS overpowered, but then again it is Flagship class. Speak to Tel for more help. But aren't the Maj and the capital destroyer (which is apparently made out of rice paper) flagship class as well? I figure they should be at least a reasonable match when backed up with so much additional firepower. BTW: will scuttling the shipyard give me an extra flagship slot, or just more carriers? |
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| acelynham |
Posted on 25-09-2007 10:03
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 Posts: 183 Joined: September 23 2007 |
i try and hyperspace in a maj and some caps behind it and send the rest at the front so it wont turn round, but even then it takes days to destroy the damn thing!! |
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| Tristan |
Posted on 25-09-2007 10:10
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Posts: 304 Joined: June 28 2006 |
My opinion would be to make the Battle Barge both more expensive and take much much longer to build. I feel nerfing its stats would demean its awesomeness. Turn down its overall build value in the ship files, and make it so it's not mentioned so much in the AI file. This will make it so the AI doesn't -always- build it. I had to do this with Hiigarans, because they were way too obsessed with building Majirians. Edited by Tristan on 25-09-2007 11:04 |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 25-09-2007 12:13
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 Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
An interim balancing mechanism is to make all lesser strategic-bombardment capable weapons like SBA, SM4 and AC275 have a range of 20, just like the Battle Barge's phased particle beams. AC barrages are common practise and no there isn't any set "effective range" for spaceborne ballistic weapons since it depends on the target and a whole chunk of velocity calculations. For something as huge as the battle barge, it wouldn't be a problem for a squadron of Arbiters to fire on the huge flying fortress in a manner that the barge won't even realize its flying right into a hail of AC275 solid shot... that in reality no armour would hope to defeat. Two options here: Model a realistic sensors system whereby all ships have very long secondary (passive) sensors that can easily pick up large objects or others' sensor emissions, and primary (high definition) sensors for weapons control and detection of stealthy attack boats. Option two involves modelling the solid-core autocannon round for large ACs presently restricted to blind area barrages. SC rounds will not have an accuracy rating but fire on an intercept course to its target and deal very heavy physical damage (punches right through anything). If the target moves, the shot misses, just like existing unguided rockets. This is how ballistic weapon should behave - rather useless against fast-movers but against static battle barges you can bomb it to pieces across the solar system... if you are willing to wait that long for the shells to arrive, and the target doesn't move an inch. Even a bit of lateral correction on attitude control thrusters will mean your ambitious trans-system shot misses  |
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| acelynham |
Posted on 25-09-2007 13:22
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Posts: 183 Joined: September 23 2007 |
i really like the idea of uber long range solid slug shots... but about this range 20 business... what is the range these are set to at the moment? (and where would i find the files to edit?) |
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| Komo val |
Posted on 25-09-2007 13:31
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Posts: 392 Joined: September 27 2006 |
Battle Barge overpowered?? Slightly, yes. But I got in a fight with it with a Majiirian with modest escort. The enemy had the Battle Barge, a shipyard, 4 Al-moudamers and a shitload of fighters. My allies where a useful distraction (but there where only strikecraft and an occasional frigate). After the predictable outcome of defeat I was surprised that the Battle Barge's health was at 50%. So a Majiirian with a proper escort should own the Battle Barge (it makes an awfully easy target for the battleship's SBA) |
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| acelynham |
Posted on 25-09-2007 13:34
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Posts: 183 Joined: September 23 2007 |
however vaygr strikecraft pwn so the maj has its hands awful full |
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| Komo val |
Posted on 25-09-2007 13:48
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Posts: 392 Joined: September 27 2006 |
Therefore you need a proper escort. What do you think who destroyed the Majiirian? |
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| thecactusman17 |
Posted on 25-09-2007 18:05
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Posts: 5 Joined: September 25 2007 |
I'm maxing out my escorts, literally. In fact, I suspect that sometimes my problem is a definite inability to manage the massive flets that I often send at my enemy. I'm just saying, and saying only that while the BB is a great asset to the Vaygr, it is spammed with annoying frequency by the AI. I have literally destroyed every ship in the Vaygr fleet, save the BB, and it manages to build another Star Emperor AND a backup carrier while it decimates my remaining fleet. I have also noticed that the BB takes damage unevenly--sometimes its health drops like a rock, sometimes the health bar barely moves. All beams and cannons are hitting their targets, so what's up here? |
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| Dafeaz |
Posted on 25-09-2007 20:46
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 Posts: 84 Joined: September 02 2007 |
I find my MGCs and Cutlass are usually more than adequate enough to defend my Marjiirian from strike craft assaults.
http://www.nationstates.net/feazanthia
Resident forum lurker, no coding or modeling skills required! Turnin' Battle Barges to swiss cheese and lookin' good doin' it. |
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| acelynham |
Posted on 26-09-2007 00:46
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Posts: 183 Joined: September 23 2007 |
ive taken to using bloodhounds, they have enough ASW to at least take the blows for the maj |
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| Dafeaz |
Posted on 26-09-2007 04:42
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Posts: 84 Joined: September 02 2007 |
The Skaal is one of the deadliest predators that roam the southern wastes of Kharak, and was the greatest threat to the safety of caravans until it was deliberately hunted to the edge of extinction. The male of the species, the Skaal Tel, is a vicious clawed hunter with heavy scales and poison sacs that can blind or kill an unwary opponent at a distance. Though it masses nearly ten times that of an average humanoid, it is still able to keep up with a warrior at full run. The Skaal Tel hunts for its mate and cubs during the breeding cycle and is capable of dragging its kill back to the den from over a hundred kilometers away. To successfully engage a Battle Barge, you must learn from the warriors who hunted the Skaal Tel lizard on ancient Kharak. Attack in a group, from all sides, and use your fastest and most maneuverable assets to draw the beast's attention while you concentrate your attacks on its flanks. Tried with a quintet of Arbiters today. Drew the main fleet's attention with frigates while my Arbiters moved in and started pounding the BB's rear. By the time the strike craft could react, my Majiirian pair had moved in and begun assaulting the shipyard. I lost my frigates but won the battle. But yes, the Hiigs need a more reliable method to deal with those swarms. Cutlass are too expensive to be throwing at the enemy masses, and we can only build 4 Avenger wings at a time. Perhaps a modern version of the old Flak Frigate? Something designed to take on a large number of small, weak vessels. Edited by Dafeaz on 26-09-2007 04:44 http://www.nationstates.net/feazanthia
Resident forum lurker, no coding or modeling skills required! Turnin' Battle Barges to swiss cheese and lookin' good doin' it. |
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| acelynham |
Posted on 26-09-2007 12:06
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Posts: 183 Joined: September 23 2007 |
the flak frigates were my fave ship in stock hw2, they were awesome for just rinsing clouds of vaygr strikecraft |
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| yasotay |
Posted on 26-09-2007 14:28
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 Posts: 637 Joined: September 09 2005 |
mmm.... I have found that the earlier LiirHra class used in conjunction with strikecraft have a rather good success rate against Vaygr strike craft. In past occurances of Vaygr dominance of heavy fires, using LiirHra class in classic "Boom and Zoom" profile with heavier ships have seemed to provide for success. Having not had opportunity to conduct operations against the BBarge, I can not confirm this to be a valid tactic. |
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| acelynham |
Posted on 26-09-2007 15:48
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Posts: 183 Joined: September 23 2007 |
boom & zoom? |
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| Dafeaz |
Posted on 26-09-2007 16:35
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Posts: 84 Joined: September 02 2007 |
I've found that no matter how many 100mm MRACs you have, those damned swarms from both the Taiidan and the Vaygr just completely destroy me. Even if I max out on Avengers and LSFs, I just can't defend against them. Sure, I can usually keep the enemy off one of my Majs, but I usually field two of them and around 5-7 Arbiters. And even IF I defeat the swarm, I've still got either a BB or a Venerator pair breathing down my neck! One thing could be said for Invasion-era Emergency Refit ships. They were slow and bulky, but they killed Vaygr. They killed Vaygr dead. http://www.nationstates.net/feazanthia
Resident forum lurker, no coding or modeling skills required! Turnin' Battle Barges to swiss cheese and lookin' good doin' it. |
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| acelynham |
Posted on 26-09-2007 17:05
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Posts: 183 Joined: September 23 2007 |
yeah the old arbiters still had teeth |
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| MasterChief |
Posted on 26-09-2007 18:09
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 Posts: 18 Joined: September 23 2007 |
to counter the BB threat i had to strip all of its escorts away first as in all the carriers, frigates and resource collectors so that they'd be short on credits to build reinforcements for their damn swarms... send in the fast battleships to keep em occupied while you move in the heavy majiirans and escort battlecruisers to pound the living hell out of the BB... but by then... the skies are completely clear of all the fighters, corvettes and frigates i sent in to clear their strike craft also  |
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