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 Nano-disassembler Weapons Discussion
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| Norsehound |
Posted on 30-09-2005 05:18
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 Posts: 26 Joined: September 07 2005 |
Well... some other possibilities of nanotechnological use: Life support Manufactureing Reconnisance/survailance (micro probes!) We already know that a processing center is able to deconstruct raw materials into their base elements, which could be considered a nanotechnogical feat. But where else could it be used in production? Short-life nanites released on raw materials to make a tank? Sounds like magic to me... unleash a potion to turn a brick into a coach  Medical: Instant healing gel! In a mere hour a full body can be restored to full capacity... even return life from death! ...sounds like the ultimate cure-everything pill. Life support: This is where I see microscopinc machinery making sense. Imagine a layer of nanites between the hull and an inner hull of the ship. Their task would be to seal any breaches and convert themselves into micro-armor elements. This way, armor-penetrating rounds wouldn't remain gaping holes until a shutter or repair team was issued. One could also simply use self-sealing paste cells throught the hull that rupture to seal these breaches when the cell itself is breached. Reconnisasnce: Remember the RTS days when there was no Fog of war? It's back again! Why not rig each ship (even fighters!) with a pod to release a nanite sensor pod every, oh, say five seconds into space. If it isn't destroyed by cosmic radiation, gunfire, or the ship's engines, you have a really nice almost invincible probe. And since neither the Hiigarans or Vaygr employ Expanding sphere generators (or any area-affect damage weapon), clearing a seeded feild would be close to impossible. And let's not tangent on the disucssion of Micro-mines. The implications there are obvious and scary. So, finding an application for nanites that cannot be substituted by a Vaygr warrior-prestiess or a handful of shrine maidens weilding the powers of Sajuuk is a hard venture. Sure it's cool, but does it still look sci-fi? And would it break the established universal flavor of HW2? Edited by Norsehound on 30-09-2005 05:18 Resigned.
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| Jay |
Posted on 30-09-2005 16:56
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Posts: 9 Joined: September 29 2005 |
I agree with Norsehound. Other non-weapon applications are out there, but they definitely seem more contrived than the PDS science fiction would allow. It's difficult to say where we would be far in the future, but the laws of physics will always apply, unless we're talking magic. I could only see them being used for recon in an environment a little friendlier to their tiny, fragile shells. In space, it would be tough, and if you got close enough to inject them into an enemy's ship, why not send in Marines instead? If you sidled up against an enemy and didn't try an attack run, I think they'd know something was up. It is possible for them to have medical applications, but I can't see them doing any better than an accomplished microsurgeon. If they were used for healing, it would be a long, drawn out process. They wouldn't be able to cure any quickly-mutating diseases, nor could they bring back the dead. They could aid in the recuperative process after surgery or something: stave off disease, etc. Also, micromines sound fairly ineffective. Besides not being able to survive in space, how devastating could the explosion be? Not much room for a chemical warhead or to catlayze fusion/fission. Edited by Jay on 30-09-2005 16:57 |
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| BigFish |
Posted on 30-09-2005 20:52
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Posts: 106 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Quote Let my clarify what i mean when i say viruses can't self propogate. Viruses are incapable of reproducing without the aid of another organism. They are parasites. Quote The reason that viruses can change is that DNA transcription is not a completely accurate process (likely the reason for much of the redundant genatic material). I have heard some theorys that say viruses are the ultimate and most highly evolved organisms on the planet as they have lost the need to engage in any inefficiant and wastefull activitys such as growing, feeding, moving, etc. They even hijack other animals to do the hard work of breeding. lol! I still dont know wheather they are alive or not tho.... 
Rampent Kitty-basher
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/10...ang0gu.gif |
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| BigFish |
Posted on 01-10-2005 03:38
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Posts: 106 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Depends. Eggs definatly were around before chickens and eggs predate the vertebrate invasion of land but its believed eggs and egg laying animals kinda just appeared at the same time. Even evolutionists get a bit twitchy if you ask them this question, lol! Rampent Kitty-basher
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/10...ang0gu.gif |
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| zenprime |
Posted on 02-10-2005 10:10
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 Posts: 105 Joined: September 02 2005 |
I do believe we are kicking a dead horse now! Or would this be not-kicking a live one??   Bring it on. I've mastered multiple forms of Pink! [small]Zenprime is dead. Well no |
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| Nemmerle |
Posted on 02-10-2005 15:45
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Posts: 113 Joined: September 16 2005 |
Hmm thoughts on nano-tech usage: Some form of internal security/warning grid for ships using nanotech in the air could allow for protection from boarding attempts. Fast setting gel that bonds on that sort of level for very strong hull repairs, just spray into the hole and leave to set. Maybe you could sandwich it in the armour somehow under pressure so when the hull is breached it gets pushed into the hole without need to be sprayed on by a crew member. Common medical applications like repairing the walls of veins and the like might be workable. Perhaps some form of nanite to aid in stemming bleeding, like blood cells but better. A sort of super-fast clotting made up of little machines in the blood. Edited by Nemmerle on 02-10-2005 15:53 |
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| Jay |
Posted on 04-10-2005 05:33
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Posts: 9 Joined: September 29 2005 |
Quote Some form of internal security/warning grid for ships using nanotech in the air could allow for protection from boarding attempts. We already discussed that they wouldn't be able to "survive" in space. Quote Fast setting gel that bonds on that sort of level for very strong hull repairs, just spray into the hole and leave to set... crew member. The gel idea was aready discussed, I'm not sure that nanites or whatever you're thinking of for nanotechnology would really add any effectiveness over more conventionl repairs/damage control. Usuall nanotechnology is construction through bonding on a very tiny scale, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say it. Quote Common medical applications like repairing the walls of veins and the like might be workable. Perhaps some form of nanite to aid in stemming bleeding, like blood cells but better. A sort of super-fast clotting made up of little machines in the blood. If they could do it, it would probably only have surgical applications. In either combat or surgery situations, would using nanotech/nanites be more efficacious than more conventional methods? |
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| Nemmerle |
Posted on 04-10-2005 06:19
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Posts: 113 Joined: September 16 2005 |
Quote Jay wrote: Quote Some form of internal security/warning grid for ships using nanotech in the air could allow for protection from boarding attempts. We already discussed that they wouldn't be able to "survive" in space. That would be why I said internal rather than external... Quote Jay wrote: Quote Fast setting gel that bonds on that sort of level for very strong hull repairs, just spray into the hole and leave to set... crew member. The gel idea was aready discussed, I'm not sure that nanites or whatever you're thinking of for nanotechnology would really add any effectiveness over more conventionl repairs/damage control. Usuall nanotechnology is construction through bonding on a very tiny scale, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say it. A form of gel that bonds with the rest of the hull on a very small scale. That it would be more effective is simple enough, rather than having to get a new part of hull, or close off the affected area or whatever you've got this handy gel stuff which fills the hole. Nanites suspended in a gel-like solution perhaps that lock together over the hole and with the rest of the hull. Quote Jay wrote: Quote Common medical applications like repairing the walls of veins and the like might be workable. Perhaps some form of nanite to aid in stemming bleeding, like blood cells but better. A sort of super-fast clotting made up of little machines in the blood. If they could do it, it would probably only have surgical applications. In either combat or surgery situations, would using nanotech/nanites be more efficacious than more conventional methods? Well technically anything where you reconstruct parts of the body is surgery, it would be more effective than conventional methods because of the scale. If I aim a laser cutter at something I'm causing a lot of secondary damage just to get rid of a tumor, whereas if I send some nanites along to get rid of it... It's the difference between area bombing and a laser guided bomb. It should be helpful in combat situations because it could stabilise the patient until doctors arrived. Though it probably couldn't create any extra mass to heal large injuries it would certainly be rather useful. |
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| Jay |
Posted on 04-10-2005 06:30
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Posts: 9 Joined: September 29 2005 |
Sorry, I misread. Would security/warning in the form of nanits change much? When a ship is running alongside you, close enough to touch in some way, I think they'd know what's coming. For hull repair, nanites would not repair quickly enough, so the gel itself would be fine alone. For the surgical/medical implementation, I just don't see them to be able to do their job quickly enough. Microsurgery is possible even now, and in combat situations one tends toward a quick fix. |
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| Norsehound |
Posted on 04-10-2005 06:37
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Posts: 26 Joined: September 07 2005 |
Hmm... My reply here must have dissapeared. Anyway, to address the concern of Nanites as a security measure: What exactly are you thinking? Airborne nanites? What would they do? Suffocate invaders? And how would they differentiate between friend and foe? And another thing: How would they survive passage through the ventelation system? And would there be any drawbacks to inhaling... I dunno, 300 nanites a day? As for medical reasons: If Nanites are so spectacular at healing, why not inject every Hiigaran servicemen with a few for faster regeneration? I'm sure some traditionlists might say otherwise...and the Vaygr don't need 'em. Resigned.
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 04-10-2005 06:43
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 Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Quote If Nanites are so spectacular at healing Post working principles first before making statements. How does nanotechnology benefit medical science, and how can nanomachines directly support a person's well being? |
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| Jay |
Posted on 04-10-2005 06:44
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Posts: 9 Joined: September 29 2005 |
@Norsehound: thanks for putting what I'm trying to say so eloquently. I don't see the use of nanites as efficient in any way so far. |
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| Norsehound |
Posted on 04-10-2005 07:04
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Posts: 26 Joined: September 07 2005 |
*Shrugs* The only way I can see nanotechnology benefiting the homeworld Medical universe is it's use perhaps as an antiviral agent. As Virises are immune to most antibiotics nowadays, nano-machines could be developed to kill them. Perhaps they could be used as a detterent against biological warfare. Steriotypical (At least the way I see it) nanites in Science fiction are like the Borg: Cell regeneration and organ repair. If we see nanites in a role of constructing materials, parts, (yes, even tanks!) They could be pressed into the role of organ replacement. Raw materials would have to be provided, and the nanites would have to be sophisticated enough to use the said provided inert matter to begin reconstruction of an organ/bone/limb on a mollecular level. And unless they were super sophisticated and frighteningly fast (like Beast fast), it would take days, weeks...if not a great many months.) While this is all well and good, the sophistication matter is still there. Nanites, as far as I know, have not been introduced into HW lore (outside of the notorious beast, and I feel nanites themsleves should stay out of HW lore). Nanites and molecular-level machines introduced _now_ would be at best primitive with limited functions. We don't even know if the HW galaxy is really capable of operating at molecular/subatomic levels (other than resource seperation). Sure, it might be possible here in the modern day, but HW isn't set Here in the modern day. It's set an undefined variable in the future (or the past...) with different priorieties and different technologies. Resigned.
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 04-10-2005 07:51
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Cool, thanks for the clarification! |
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| MDD |
Posted on 04-10-2005 08:20
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 Posts: 32 Joined: September 26 2005 |
I don't think that nanites are intended to replace any of the bodies normal functions. The human body already has an amazing capability for repair. Nanites in the medical field would be used to make certain processes more efficient. For example, nanites could be used in the lungs of smokers to aid in the filtration of the air and to break down some of the more toxic compounds. You could inject them into the blood stream to break down poisons, to counteract drugs or hormones. They could even be used as artificial stem cells. Say there was a nanite construction facility inside the body. Doesn't even need to be a centralized process. But the nanites would have the ability to replicate themselves and to adapt to the body. Say you break a nerve, nanites could then be created to simulate the nerve function. The nanites could clear toixins and lactic acid from muscle tissue, increasing endurance and stamina. |
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| Nemmerle |
Posted on 04-10-2005 14:42
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Posts: 113 Joined: September 16 2005 |
Quote Jay wrote: Sorry, I misread. Would security/warning in the form of nanits change much? When a ship is running alongside you, close enough to touch in some way, I think they'd know what's coming. Knowing what's comming is one thing, being able to effectively counteract that is another. As I see it all the marines that board a ship would wear EV suits so as to be safe if the crew of the ship decided to vent the atmosphere. This in mind we need a new way to kill large numbers of boarding marines with minimal effort, an answer to this could be nanites. It only takes a few nerves cut away, a small hole in a space suit, and the marine in question would be dead or paralysed. Quote Jay wrote: For hull repair, nanites would not repair quickly enough, so the gel itself would be fine alone. It's not so much that the nanites repair the hull itself as much as they would lock together to become a patch over the hole in the hull. Like bloodcells clotting on a wound. Quote Jay wrote: For the surgical/medical implementation, I just don't see them to be able to do their job quickly enough. Microsurgery is possible even now, and in combat situations one tends toward a quick fix. That depends on what you define as their job, the things you need to do to stabilise someone who is wounded are remarkably small if you could actually get in there to do them. Once the patient is stabilised it doesn't matter how long it takes to fix them, all the nanite has to do is keep them alive until they can be fixed up properly. Quote Norsehound wrote: Anyway, to address the concern of Nanites as a security measure: What exactly are you thinking? Airborne nanites? What would they do? Suffocate invaders? And how would they differentiate between friend and foe? And another thing: How would they survive passage through the ventelation system? And would there be any drawbacks to inhaling... I dunno, 300 nanites a day? I doubt there'd be any great drawbacks to inhaling the nanites, people inhale disgusting rubbish all the time and it does them little harm. The ventilation system should be modifiable easily enough to avoid harming the nanites, if it is not in such a state already, these are people who can mess around with gravity afterall so their ventilation system might be a little more advanced than our own. For all we know they've genered a form of plant they leave in the room that scrubs the air for them. I think I mentioned I saw them as airborne. They could do many things there are lots of ways to kill people, cutting nerves for instance. Differentiateing between friend and foe could work in a few ways depending upon the sophistication of the nanites, it might be done by linking to the ship's computer, it might be done with some form of distributed processing where each nanite is a node in a cluster. It might be as simple as a small FOF beacon on uniforms. |
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| Norsehound |
Posted on 05-10-2005 04:34
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Posts: 26 Joined: September 07 2005 |
Personally? If I were a Hiigaran commander, I wouldn't want a nanite security system on my ship if I was given the above description. Too much would rely on the IFF transmitter. If it were damaged, or the ship was the subject of an EMP attack, then there is a chance the Nanites could attack the crew. And speaking of which, how would the airborne Nanites receive power? Microwave? And another thing: if the Nanites are controlled collectively from a central computer, what's to stop my Vaygr spy from getting a manual on this thing to find out which switch to use to turn the Nanites on their crew? And besides, if a 'mystical invisible snake-dragon' (to quote from Vaygr eastern mythology  ) was killing my crew from breathing in the air, I would give them all combat space suits with NBC protection and independant air supplies.In fact, what's to say that Vaygr intrusion teams don't have this in the firstplace? Hmm... Resigned.
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| Nemmerle |
Posted on 05-10-2005 18:30
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Posts: 113 Joined: September 16 2005 |
Quote Norsehound wrote:Too much would rely on the IFF transmitter. If it were damaged, or the ship was the subject of an EMP attack, then there is a chance the Nanites could attack the crew. The ships are frequently subjected to EMP waves of devastating magnitude and never so much as flinch, I don't think it would be a terrible problem. And as I said an IFF transmitter is only one means of doing it, you might simply designate the room you knew you were to be boarded by and tell the nanites to kill anything that moved in there. Chances are it's not a system you'd leave on all the time so much as one you'd deploy when the ship actually tried to board you. Quote Norsehound wrote:And speaking of which, how would the airborne Nanites receive power? Microwave? If you're not bothered about anything in the room living then you might do it with microwaves, depends on the condition you intend to deploy them under. Quote Norsehound wrote:And another thing: if the Nanites are controlled collectively from a central computer, what's to stop my Vaygr spy from getting a manual on this thing to find out which switch to use to turn the Nanites on their crew? Counter intelligence... access codes, security procedures. The same things that stop the Vaygr spy from just venting all the atmosphere apart from the room he's in, or detonating the reactant store, or whatever else. Quote Norsehound wrote:And besides, if a 'mystical invisible snake-dragon' (to quote from Vaygr eastern mythology ) was killing my crew from breathing in the air, I would give them all combat space suits with NBC protection and independant air supplies.In fact, what's to say that Vaygr intrusion teams don't have this in the firstplace? Hmm... I assume they do, hence why you can't just vent the atmosphere. Nanites have the advantage of being very small, someone might have an armoured space suit but it just takes the tiniest of holes in it... |
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| Inert |
Posted on 05-10-2005 23:33
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 Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
Nanites are too small and too weak to do anything offensive, in my opinion. On paper and in the lab they're fine, but in the open they're more variables to think about. "The ships are frequently subjected to EMP waves of devastating magnitude and never so much as flinch..." That is not true. If a ship gets hit too much, its systems are knocked offline. Thus the "blue" bar. "...you might simply designate the room you knew you were to be boarded by and tell the nanites to kill anything that moved in there." Then how would you "clean" this room after? No waiting period? "Counter intelligence... access codes, security procedures. The same things that stop the Vaygr spy from just venting all the atmosphere apart from the room he's in, or detonating the reactant store, or whatever else." Codes can be cracked, just like everything else. |
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| Norsehound |
Posted on 06-10-2005 04:13
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Posts: 26 Joined: September 07 2005 |
Quote If you're not bothered about anything in the room living then you might do it with microwaves, depends on the condition you intend to deploy them under. It also depends on how small power receivers can get and if the circutry on the nanites is sufficient enough to receive operating power. Quote Counter intelligence... access codes, security procedures. The same things that stop the Vaygr spy from just venting all the atmosphere apart from the room he's in, or detonating the reactant store, or whatever else. As Inert said, codes can be cracked. And there's nothing stopping Vaygr technicians with some Hiigaran systems experience from identifying what they need to cut to terminate the 'mystical nanite defense system'. if this were SFB, it would be one BIG target to slam with my hit and run raids (hence it becomes a high value target). Quote I assume they do, hence why you can't just vent the atmosphere. Nanites have the advantage of being very small, someone might have an armoured space suit but it just takes the tiniest of holes in it... If it has the 'tiniest of holes' then it isn't much of an anti NBC suit. I assume you don't know what the acronym stands for. It means Nuclear, Biological, Chemical. This means that such a suit would be protected against Nuclear radiation, hostile micro-organisms, and chemical agents (no matter how small they are) in the enviroment surrounding the suit. Even though one has to wrestle with Vaygr fighters to get them to perform miracles, NBC suits are NOT taken lightly, especially if it means an entire unit could be at stake. One fault in an NBC suit means that the whole production line is in question. Resigned.
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