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 Reactor modernisation initiative (RMI)
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| Inert |
Posted on 22-11-2005 05:28
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 Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
Itharu please note that the M-E reactions that we are discussing are the same as the ICA technology. Please also note that the ICA technology are not anti-matter reactions. There was a seperate thread about anti-matter technology, I believe. I also think M-E reactors should be able to allocate power for engine impulses, in a situation where quickly rotating your ship becomes important. |
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| Nemmerle |
Posted on 22-11-2005 08:30
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 Posts: 113 Joined: September 16 2005 |
Quote Glacialis wrote: I have stated my views, and I do not see any imaginary supercomputer generating the necessary data for changing M-E chambers built into weapons -- yes, they are -- into units that can power, safely and under combat conditions, an entire starship. The reactors are incorporated into the ICA device, they are not the weapon itself however. The ICa device still works by firing a stream of particles at the target, in order to do this you need to utilise the energy provided by the reactor in a form that can be used for things like magnetic containment, particle acceleration, and so on. Thus the M-E is a part of the weapon system but is not inseperably so, the plans for it as a seperate reactor must already exist for it would have to have been tested before it was used to power weapons systems anyway. You do not need a super computer to create something that already exists and incorporating such a device into upcomming plans should be relatively simple, certainly not adding a great deal of time to the development cycle. |
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| Glacialis |
Posted on 22-11-2005 13:59
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 Posts: 368 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Inert, a M-E reactor, no matter how efficient, is going to release magnitudes more energy than a fusion reactor and is going to be in the ballpark of antimatter reactors. All an antimatter reactor is, is a 99.9% efficient M-E reactor. Channelling that much energy safely and enabling the reaction chamber to sustain battle damage and still function is at the present time an impossibility. For the smaller offensive reactors, they're fine. Might even be able to have one assist the HDF generator but they are probably using the best capacitors they know how to use anyway so that might not help. There are serious issues preventing immediate or near future implementation of M-E reactors as primary power sources. I'm done with this thread. I do not care to repeat myself over and over and over again. Edited by Glacialis on 22-11-2005 14:04 |
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| Inert |
Posted on 22-11-2005 18:39
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Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
Glacialis, the process in which anti-matter reactions are initiated and M-E reactions, like our ICA, are initiated are different. Nevertheless, they yeild the same energy, weight for weight. The only difference is that M-E reactions are inheirently more safe then AM reactions. Nevertheless, I agree with Glacialis that M-E reactors will not become a primary energy provider soon, and should be delegated to secondary tasks. Edited by Inert on 22-11-2005 18:40 |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 23-11-2005 00:53
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 Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
I still don't know if ANYONE has explained how the M-E reactors function, their methods at energy production (reactions) or the fuels involved. I believe that's something that has to be agreed upon and clarified.
-Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 23-11-2005 04:53
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 Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Basically I'd like it to be an adaptation of a laser-fusion type plasma cannon. It has a reaction chamber, with a pellet of whatever fusionable fuel used by our starships in the middle of it. Use lasers to heat the fuel up to fusionable temperatures and project the plasma mass in a magnetic containment bubble out a linear accelerator at your target. This is thus, far less advanced than a "proper" M-E type reactor. The laser-fusion powerplant generates impulse power for energy weapon systems and from the way I see it now (refering to ongoing discussions on this topic) one LF powerplant can support a whole battery of energy weapons by itself plus may function as an APU of sorts for other systems. The issue here to note that this is not intended to be a continuous operation type powerplant. |
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| Glacialis |
Posted on 23-11-2005 12:10
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Posts: 368 Joined: September 02 2005 |
So our M-E reactors, properly called Laser Plasma (LP) reactors/cores, are outputwise a cross between a fusion reactor and an antimatter reactor. They are likely much less efficient than fusion torches, but great for generating large amounts of energy quickly. |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 23-11-2005 13:43
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Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
They can still fit into the outline I had previously made up. Hell, anything really could, there wasn't anything truely technical to it.
-Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| Glacialis |
Posted on 23-11-2005 14:59
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Posts: 368 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Yeah, I like your layout Itharu. It allows for military-level redundancy -- ie, a lot. That's one of the reasons capital ships have so much staying power: system redundancy, not armor plating. Oh sure, the armor helps  but having an extra five or more backups prevents a lucky shot from taking the whole ship down. |
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| Nemmerle |
Posted on 23-11-2005 17:31
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Posts: 113 Joined: September 16 2005 |
Quote TelQuessir wrote: The issue here to note that this is not intended to be a continuous operation type powerplant. It doesn't need to be, you just stick the power produced each time it fires into a capacitor and bleed off as you need it to provide constant power. |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 24-11-2005 04:51
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Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
Quote Glacialis wrote: Yeah, I like your layout Itharu. It allows for military-level redundancy -- ie, a lot. That's one of the reasons capital ships have so much staying power: system redundancy, not armor plating. Oh sure, the armor helps but having an extra five or more backups prevents a lucky shot from taking the whole ship down.Hehe, yeah... Armor only tends to keep the air inside the ship for the most part. If anyone is up to the task, I suggest reading of BIO of a Space Tyrant; book 3. It deals mostly with ship-to-ship combat, 0G combat situations and a number of intersting scenarios. It is written by Piers Anthony. -Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| Glacialis |
Posted on 24-11-2005 05:17
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Posts: 368 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Never would have thought of Piers Anthony for space warfare, of which I read the Phaze series and the first dozen Xanth books (first 5 definitely the best). |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 24-11-2005 06:20
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Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
Quote Glacialis wrote: Never would have thought of Piers Anthony for space warfare, of which I read the Phaze series and the first dozen Xanth books (first 5 definitely the best). He does take a very realistic approach that parelles actual real life things that were happening at the time. Which also reminds me. In the series, ships used Iron for a fuel system if I remember correctly. I think they had a method of converting it into anti matter. Was not well explained, but it was interesting. -Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| Glacialis |
Posted on 24-11-2005 16:27
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Posts: 368 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Through fusion as we know it, iron is the result of the last fusion process. It's the "leftover" waste. That might have something to do with it? |
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| Inert |
Posted on 24-11-2005 16:41
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Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
I don't know of any fusion reaction that produces iron. Do you have the formula for it? |
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| Old Crusty Commodore |
Posted on 24-11-2005 19:24
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Posts: 62 Joined: September 07 2005 |
Its like the formula of irony like Goldy with Bronsy made out of iron 
Weather aint neutral....
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| jileto |
Posted on 24-11-2005 21:28
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Posts: 3 Joined: November 24 2005 |
The stated goal at the start of the thread - Improved Endurance, brought to mind Kockums' Stirling AIP System (http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/aipstirling.html). Also, somewhere along the start of the thread, combinations of reactors was also brought up. Back to the Stirling AIP, some would dare say that aside from giving diesel-electric subs increased submerged endurance from mere days to several weeks, it also gave them near or better stealth capabilities compared to nuclear subs. The point I'm trying to raise is the discussion should not work towards the 1 basic reactor design (M-E) but rather 2, or at most 3 designs that will address different endurance profiles. For example, with the Stirling AIP, it gives diesel electrics increased submerged endurance and stealth. Before, diesel electrics have to stay hidden long enough to strike. With the improvements, they can stalk and strike and even go for another round of stalk and strike with a skilled captain. Taking this to PDS, it may translate to a ship that can fire when cloaked because of distributed power systems - less need to bleed power of weapons to maintain the cloak. Or increased rate of fire because of faster recharge rates - with several power sources you can bleed, the recharge rates are faster. Or increased endurance. Several powered systems have to be disabled first to take out weapons. What I'm trying to say is, don't just concentrate on developing a new reactor. Something similar to the Kockums solution of addressing the deficiencies of the existing one may also introduce a quantum leap in performance. |
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| MarieHawke |
Posted on 24-11-2005 22:42
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 Posts: 501 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Umm. IIRC, in the nuclear fusion in the sun, hydrogen --> helium --> oxygen --> a lot of other crap --> iron, because steadily the nuclei get heavier. Eventually, the sun tries to fuse iron, which causes the thing to explode in either a supernova or one of those "littler" red giant-go-booms. I'll edit once I grab my book. Let's see... hydrogen helium lithium (a lot of other crap  )iron Edited by MarieHawke on 24-11-2005 22:52 A starlight sharpshot magical girl!
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| Glacialis |
Posted on 25-11-2005 03:17
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Posts: 368 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Yup. Iron is the heaviest fusable element using the "natural" stellar fusion processes. Still, it's a lot of enegy to get there. While fusing hydrogen is the most bang for yer particles, stars have to work with heavier elements as time goes on. PDS-era ships can easily use hydrogen gathered from space. |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 25-11-2005 03:49
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Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
Quote Glacialis wrote: Yup. Iron is the heaviest fusable element using the "natural" stellar fusion processes. Still, it's a lot of enegy to get there. While fusing hydrogen is the most bang for yer particles, stars have to work with heavier elements as time goes on. PDS-era ships can easily use hydrogen gathered from space. Could be just as interesting to collect the solar flairs that spike up. that's bascially ionised hydrogen (aka plasma I believe), easily decharged and changed to over active hydrogen. But beware of electrical system damage All and all though, only some suns actually try hard to fuse iron, that's after they try fusing carbon. Some stars do turn into 'iron stars' when they fail to properly fuse. And you must pause and think for a moment, if we have elements as high as Uranium (92 protons, something like 126 neutrons) Something even bigger had to have fused to create uranium. I'm sure one could work out what generation star we have making our sunlight. Just musings. PS... why were subs and cloaking brought into this? If there was a ship that would mimmic the characteristics of a real sub, it would be painted entirely black, covered in plating to deflect/ alter sensor detections, never emit radio signals and have to have a system where it would 'plant' torpedos that would aquire targes and attack without revealing the location of the ship. (I've previously put a lot of thought into making space subs a viable ship of space warfair and I'll tell you, it's not freaken easy or simple) -Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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