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 PDS 7.32 Lavi CL Tactics
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| ishantil |
Posted on 16-05-2007 01:07
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 Posts: 35 Joined: November 15 2006 |
Hey all, I'm pretty new to this iteration of PDS. I've been using the Lavi in Scenario 1. One thing I noticed is that it's usually a liability rather than an asset. It moves around too much and gets into trouble instead of acting as part of the fleet. The choice to use the Frigate AI seems neat at first, until you realize that it skips from target to target, incurring the wrath of almost anything in the sector. While I appreciate the speed of the ship, it requires so much micromanagement, it's almost not worth having around. Can you guys explain the battlefield role of a Light Cruiser? So far, I'd rather have another Arbiter DD in Scenario 1. The only thing I can think of is a independent group of 3 or 4 Lavi class Light Cruisers running around doing hit and fade attacks. Cheers, Ishantil |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 16-05-2007 04:49
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 Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
You mean the LH class. Which is decidedly unsuited to V7.3 style combat because all that matters is armour and firepower. The LH concept is one that mates a battlecruiser beam battery to a frigate's maneuverability for a fast attack platform.. so far I haven't been able to get that right perfectly (is the V11 CL okay?) but rest assured I will act on your feedback for future V11 versions. |
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| Tristan |
Posted on 16-05-2007 07:55
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 Posts: 304 Joined: June 28 2006 |
The Liirha apears much more suited for v11. I love adding it to a fighter strike force. Its manueverability, speed and turetted, high damage waepons makes it an excellent super heavy. It also doesn't get confused, and cluttered, like the super cap ships often do. |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 16-05-2007 07:58
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
LHs were underpowered in V11 beta 3 or earlier because DEWs were nerfed by combat-optimisation of ship hitpoints. Cruisers unfortunately didn't get their HPs boosted enough to go with the complete V11 weapons balancing range especially once the Vaygr and their short range heavy hitting arms came into play. Once fixed in beta 5, they were superb fast attack boats as they should. |
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| ishantil |
Posted on 16-05-2007 21:36
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Posts: 35 Joined: November 15 2006 |
I have not used the LH in V11 extensively. I'm having trouble with getting isolated, surrounded and annihilated. I tried out the "ambush" mission. And so far, it seems like it was a poorly executed plan that ends up in being completely surrounded in destroyed. Which is exactly how the Vagyr would like it to play out. And based on the force correlation, exactly how it SHOULD play out. But my own skills (or apparent lack thereof -_-), it seems to work better in v11 than in v732. I'll play with it some more and get back to you. In 732, I find it draws out it's best at unintentionally drawing out nearly all the enemies in the sector for you to fight all at once. >_< |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 17-05-2007 16:33
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
The key to successful LH employment in the deep strike scenario is their ability to move fast (as fast as fighters) and concentrate their firepower on small enemy units to destroy them before they can regroup. You should also seek to identify which cruiser is under heavy attack and withdraw it before its integrity gets critical. The boat in distress can run fast and bait the enemy into a linear chase whereupon you can cut them to ribbons with supporting ships. If you're expecting lightly protected skirmishers to go up against massive missile and plasma barrages and somehow survive (like some V7 ships do), then they will disappear very rapidly. Light fighters and battlecruisers are there to absorb the brunt of such assault missions. |
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| ishantil |
Posted on 17-05-2007 17:34
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Posts: 35 Joined: November 15 2006 |
So the LH class ships are more of a picket/special mission ship really. More usable as raiding ships and deep striking. interesting. Somethign that seems odd to me is that the LH is so fast. If they can make the LH fast, why aren't more of the larger ships say...half as fast? Is the LH considered a 6th generation ship or something? Thanks, Ishantil |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 18-05-2007 04:32
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Larger ships... fast? Sure, look at the BCRs and the CVAs. And Vaygr frigates. Older designs are simply built for a more docile outlook in thrust to mass ratio. Of course, in reality there is no stopping a Majiirian BBH from accelerating to insane tactical velocities - so thats why the in-game speed cap for them is so high, relative to stock HW2. And the Vaygr 'big, slow' capital ships studded with beam weapons? 150ms because in a battlefield situation they'd be shunting all power to their woefully inefficient fusion weapons, thus making them an easy target for Hiigaran assault fighters with their AC275s. If it ain't maneuvering, a massdriver will kill it all the time. So Vaygr ships do rely more on offboard assets to do their defensive work for them. Now you have an enemy power fielding massively powerful energy weapon battleships behind sizable picket forces, what do the Hiigarans do? Arm arsenal ships up with big, very high velocity massdrivers to smash them from standoff range while conventional forces engage the pickets and force the battleships to go to 'immobile fortress' mode. There's your daily self-justification on the BBH's rather antiquated design and weaponry. Edited by TelQuessir on 18-05-2007 04:36 |
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| ishantil |
Posted on 18-05-2007 15:35
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Posts: 35 Joined: November 15 2006 |
This sort of combat doctorine is the kind of stuff that I live for. But I don;t seem to know enough about the individual ships yet to put it in play. Last night I tried out the Calvary one. Is it supposed to be named after the place Jesus was crucified, or is it supposed to be Cavalry? In any case, There are four LH class ships in that paired with fighteres. Works very very well. The fighters go in and engage the other escort forces, and the LH class ships take out the big targets. It was wonderful to see. Back it up by an escort carrier for servicing your fighters and you have a real nice strike fleet. Cheers, Ishantil |
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| Mostly harmless |
Posted on 18-05-2007 23:20
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[118].jpg) Posts: 141 Joined: September 15 2005 |
Err that might be my fault thought I changed it. Oops. Very busy lately. Anyway, I much prefer the LiirHra in 7.3.2 reminds me of a German battle cruiser, punch with less armour, pretty nasty in small measures. They really fit the battle cruiser build. Engage until over powered. Using superior speed to escape. I have a version of the 7.3.2 scenarios which fix alot of thing will find it and release soon. |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 19-05-2007 04:15
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Cavalry is named after the modern armoured land combat units and doctrine. Speed and firepower. The shipyard got taken by surprise and command decides to destroy it rather than allow Allied technology to fall into enemy hands. A Marine recapture was deemed unfeasible due to the resources and risk involved, to little gain - Hiigaran ships and stations are heavily automated and whomever was on the station was probably killed in the mass decompression initiated by Vagyr commandos during boarding, or in the CQB to follow. So you need a fast attack force to secure the region, taking down any enemy resistance along the way. LHs supported by light carriers represent a very powerful fighting force since each LH is (supposed to) carry a battlecruiser's primary weapons in a compact, fast package. |
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| yasotay |
Posted on 23-05-2007 00:05
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 Posts: 637 Joined: September 09 2005 |
Wow!! Have not seen a thread like this in... well a while. It does my old bones good to see the Liir Hra is still a major discussion point. Oh Tel' Talbock & Co. are almost home. Of course their Mk.I Liir Hra are woefully outclassed by now on the front line. Sliding through the Vaygr net is getting very difficult. Now if I could just keep from getting sent here, there and everywhere. |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 24-05-2007 04:35
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Sliding through Vaygr net to get home? How about linking up with a Free Vaygr transport group fleeing Crusader oppression and bringing them back home? Battlestar Galactica style! It would be interesting to watch 'your' war in movie format. Imagine being deployed with cutting edge technology only to see it become more and more outdated against modern enemy weapons, and seeing the political situation change around you to boot. Reminds me of The Forever War book. |
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| yasotay |
Posted on 24-05-2007 06:26
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Posts: 637 Joined: September 09 2005 |
Alas, by the time I am through with the epilogue, our Hiigaran heroes will be doomed to repeat history. I want to make sure that all will see that no matter how romantic and noble the warrior may seem, war is an ugly, vile affair and the correctness of a cause is only decided by the victor. |
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| ishantil |
Posted on 24-05-2007 19:24
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Posts: 35 Joined: November 15 2006 |
War is ugly. And history is usually written by the victors. But with something this big, who is the victor, and who writes the histories? My thoughts on the Lavi (sic) actually the Liir'Ra that it should had lead to a new generation of faster Destroyers (or light cruisers, CLs). It seems to be almost as big as an Arbiter DD, yet nearly as fast as a corvette (or light frigate FL class) ship. They work well in groups, escorted with fighters and backed by carriers, as tel mentioned. Very well indeed. |
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| Tristan |
Posted on 24-05-2007 22:04
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Posts: 304 Joined: June 28 2006 |
If you think the Liirha is fast, you should see the new Vaygr destroyer variant in v11. Woosh! Its massive munitions payload and huge top speed makes it perfect for hit and runs on resource operations and the like. |
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| yasotay |
Posted on 26-05-2007 21:40
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Posts: 637 Joined: September 09 2005 |
It seems I will have to dig up the History of the LiirHra class from one of the ancient files...two(?) sites ago. The LiirHra is slightly bigger than a DD because it is a light cruiser. |
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| ishantil |
Posted on 28-05-2007 07:21
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Posts: 35 Joined: November 15 2006 |
Yet, it is as fast as a Corvette. Fancy that.  |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 29-05-2007 01:28
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Acceleration is a ratio of thrust to mass. Capital ships in this universe have more thrust to mass ratio than compact ships. Frigates were supposed to eat corvettes then fast cruisers came out to eat frigates. |
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| yasotay |
Posted on 29-05-2007 04:49
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Posts: 637 Joined: September 09 2005 |
And there is the fact that the Liir Hra class is the first to have access to the limited PROGENTECH made available, before The S'jet took the progenitor fleet and disappeared. The Deliverance class was to be the next class to have access, but it did not make it out of space dock  |
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