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 The Bridge section
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| Nova-Dragon |
Posted on 17-11-2005 15:49
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 Posts: 4 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Is there anyone that thinks that the bridge section position on Homeworld 2 capital ships (mostly hiigaran ships)is just wrong. Just think about it, imagine that a ship fired on that section that binds the hull and the bridge toghether and BOOM and the bridge flys away not to good if it was to happen in a fight. I think the bridge section should be somewhare else like on the centre of the ship so it dont to be so exposed like that. PS. I am soory if you guyes dont understand my english, i am trying my best to get it right. |
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| Glacialis |
Posted on 17-11-2005 16:09
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 Posts: 368 Joined: September 02 2005 |
We have command centers/bridges located in the center of the ship, where they're well-protected. The visible bridges are, I believe, used in...uh...peacetime? To observe docking maneuvers? I can't remember, but you are correct. Awfully exposed. |
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| maw3194 |
Posted on 17-11-2005 17:05
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 Posts: 66 Joined: September 02 2005 |
The Bridge, because it is one of the most essential (if not the most) part of the ship, might be able to detach itself and fly to safety (sorry for the Star Trek reference). If it were embedded into the hull then it would be more difficult to detach and a breaking up ship would have more rubble flying off the body than the side. Of course this is just a theory and I'm not too sure of it myself. Seems like it was years since I was last here
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| Warman1 |
Posted on 17-11-2005 22:20
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Posts: 146 Joined: September 08 2005 |
Detaching the bridge would be a bad idea. You would cut off the command chain to the ship completely. Confusion would reign and while a heavily damaged ship is either a complete write off or will require a large amount of yard time to be fixed it would still be a good idea to try and take it home. Besides detaching the bridge with HW2 tech would serve no other purpose then just being a big escape pod that can be easily shot away or boarded. Also as an escape pod it would not serve much of a purpose unless there were ships that came to the battle area's after battles to pick them up, or unless they were near a planet. I say this because i bet they cant put hyperspace generators on ships that small. |
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| yasotay |
Posted on 17-11-2005 23:13
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 Posts: 637 Joined: September 09 2005 |
There has been a significant number of discussions on this topic since HW2 came out. Perhaps it is a societal thing. Why do we still design ships in the real world with bridges where a rating stands over a big wheel. Even the USN uber DDX21 has a bridge with wheel. Why not bury the wheel deep in the hull and use sensors to drive it about? Why have a wheel? Maybe it is a tradition that the ships captain fights exposed on the silly bridge. Consensus in PDS'verse is that the command ought to be well protected in the middle of the ship. |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 18-11-2005 01:04
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 Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
Why not have two bridges? One as an observation deck and one as a main combat bridge. Glacialis did bring up that point and I fully agree with it. The guts of operations should stay in the middle and be comfortable where guts generally stay. Inside the ship as opposed to sticking out makes it harder for direct boarding as well as keeps it from being blown up or cut off from the rest of the ship. And if one internal bridge isn't good enough, make a second smaller one. But how big does it really need to be? I can only picture the captain, two pilots and maybe a master gunner on the bridge and communications officer if not there, off in a side room. I do not think there needs to be taking up much space where space in a ship is not a commodity. -Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 18-11-2005 04:25
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 Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Note that all G4 and later ships modelled exclusively for PDS do not have any external cockpits or command decks. I am not answerable or responsible for anything or anyone operating outside my chain of command, draw your own conclusions. As mentioned many times in the past, external, or "navigation" bridge(s) are only used for non-combat docking maneuvers, peacetime etc. Think of a starship as a submarine-like vessel. Edited by TelQuessir on 18-11-2005 04:26 |
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| yasotay |
Posted on 18-11-2005 12:01
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Posts: 637 Joined: September 09 2005 |
I think that the HGN got the message when one of their shiny new LiirHra Block5 that had gone out with Strike Task Force Alpha (under command of Captain Kor Talbock) limped home with a gutted navigation bridge and a dead ships captain and staff. Whereas another LiirHra is the same STF-A had taken a hit to the CIC and everyone survived with the ship remaining on active patrol. HGN regulations quickly changed to require the ships captain to conduct combat operations from the CIC while the 2IC and redundant ops/nav crew operate from the navigation bridge for redundant operations (if CIC is knocked out) Edited by yasotay on 18-11-2005 12:03 |
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| Glacialis |
Posted on 18-11-2005 13:55
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Posts: 368 Joined: September 02 2005 |
Should the CIC and bridge be the same compartments? I imagine CIC to be the place where all sensor data is collected and sorted, and netcentric fire control is maintained. Bridge should be dedicated to enhancing the decision making capabilities of command staff, while CIC is left to declutter the sensor grid. |
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| ColonelCurt |
Posted on 21-01-2006 19:37
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Posts: 9 Joined: January 21 2006 |
I believe thats the way things generally work on modern naval ships, with the CIC being nearby the bridge to allow for easy communication between the two, but being seperate rooms with different functions. Still, there are plenty of examples in fiction and science fiction where the 2 rooms have been combined into a single master control room called either the bridge (StarTrek, etc.) or CIC (the new Battlestar Galactica comes to mind). Personally I think that, given the amount of sensor information and other related data being gathered in a 5G battlespace, it just makes sense for that information to be sorted and sifted by specialized sensor crews in CIC so that only the relavent information is passed on to the command crew on the bridge to avoid information overload.
Edited by ColonelCurt on 21-01-2006 19:38 No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy
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| The Casualty |
Posted on 22-01-2006 02:34
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Posts: 47 Joined: December 29 2005 |
Let me give a little insight to how this all works in the US Navy, since I see alot of misconceptions thrown around. There's basically two places that the ship can be run from: The bridge, which is often one of the highest decks on the ship (on a CVN it is on level 0-9, 0-10 being the highest), is where the ship is operated from during non-combat operations. For certain GQ situations, command is transferred to the CIC, which is deep within the ship. The whole reason it is deep and seperated is to prevent a total loss of effectiveness from one shot. If your high command is still in the nav bridge when a battle breaks out, they are making a huge mistake. Also, while losing a ship's captain is bad for morale and would cause a momentary lapse in command, it isn't the end of the world. That's why we have a chain of command. Responsibility shifts to the next lowest individual. It's when you lose DCC that you are truly screwed. If damage control central is knocked out then the ship will be in chaos. As for wheels on the bridge... The navy is highly traditional. There is a ship's wheel, but it is more akin to the wheel on a smaller boat, it isn't anything like the huge wooden wheels of old. The crew on the bridge, from what I understand, consists of the captain, the XO, and/or the officer of the deck; a couple Quartermasters for navigation as well as steering the ship during difficult evolutions and combat; a few Boatswain's mates for steering during routine ops, watches, and phone-talking, and Operations specialists for sensors operations. With smaller ships come smaller bridge crews, but on carriers the compliment is sizable. It works very well, though. So well, in fact, that it has remained for a very long time. In the HW universe they might have reached a similar conclusion to how to best operate the ship. A navigation bridge outside presents a good vantage point for operation during routine operations, but I doubt it would be occupied in combat. That's the whole reason a CIC is there, to take over when it's too dangerous for an exposed bridge crew to be operating there. |
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| Coolhand77 |
Posted on 22-01-2006 15:41
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Posts: 24 Joined: October 05 2005 |
Darn, you beat me too it Casualty. One thing I would like to add is that there is also (on modern naval ships...heck and most of them back over a couple hundered years) an aft steerage postion in case of battle damage taking out the linkage from the controlls on the navagation bridge. I could see a triple redundancy like this in large (frigate and larger) HW2 ships. The Nav bridge would be, as stated, for in port manuvering, the CIC would be for combat manuvering (and all the other things a CIC is for; without "direct linking" the crew I imagine something like the new BSG bridge), and there would be an engine room manuvering station as well as stations at each major RCS clusters in case of linkage failure that could be battle station manned and run manually, coordinated from either the aft controll room, a damage control command center or the CIC, depending on what was funcitoning and what wasn't.
Wash - "This is going to get pretty interesting"
Mal - "Define Interesting" Wash - "Oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?" Still flying! |
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| The Casualty |
Posted on 22-01-2006 18:46
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Posts: 47 Joined: December 29 2005 |
Ah, yes, I forgot about that. On most modern ships the ship can be controlled from Engineering in case the two other systems are out of communications or presumed lost. In most cases, the situation is truly dire if the ship is being run from there, but it is yet another way to maintain control. |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 22-01-2006 23:11
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
This would represent a good conclusion to the topic at hand, an old one that was admittedly brought back from the dead several times. In a sci-fi context the bridge could very well be in the well protected innards of the ship. Holographic and augmented reality technology can project realistic visuals of the ship's surroundings while the maneuvering crew pilot from this station. Imagine such a system on a present-day attack submarine - the ship control station may very well be used for fire control as well with this implementation. |
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| lolroflroflcakes |
Posted on 13-03-2006 05:56
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Posts: 9 Joined: March 10 2006 |
in space they wouldn't have the surroundings projected to them because that can be just down right dissorienting and you prolly cant see much of the battle. instead the ship is probably driven from sensor plots like radar and such with no visuial contact with the space outside the vessel. much like a submarine is driven today. |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 13-03-2006 06:27
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Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
Oh really? I'm fairly sure submarines use maps and sonar pings of the sea floor and forward section to get their berrings like whales and dolphins. A visual/ radar system would certainly be imployed in space. You can't always see everything with radar, and a projection helps in displaying where enemy and friendly forces are located at all times on the battle field. I also don't know how it could be disorienting since living in space requires a development of spacial awareness that cannot be found living with a constant up and down. -Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| lolroflroflcakes |
Posted on 13-03-2006 07:12
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Posts: 9 Joined: March 10 2006 |
first of all how is the projection of black space with the ships being spots of light going to tell you whos friendly and whos not you have to stop thinking like were in space and not on earth in a 2d naval battle . second of all how do you know they still use radar they could have somthing thats nigh impossible to decive and even if the did they could simply paint the ships black or some dark colour to hid from human eyes thus making visiual spotting of enemys extremly hard. third this is in the futre so we will say the have arfitfical gravity. each ship will be at diffenert angles upside down from each other and such but to the poeple in the ship there always standing upright even though there not compared to all the other ships whcih are in the same predicament. ill put it simple in space direction is olny what you percive it making it extremly easy to chrash into each other and the eye is easily deviced due to lack of light. oh ya and subs dont usually use sonar pings because it gives away there postion they listen instead
Edited by lolroflroflcakes on 13-03-2006 07:13 |
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| Homdax |
Posted on 13-03-2006 07:49
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 Posts: 762 Joined: August 30 2005 |
lolrofl...whatever 1. Start using proper wording and at least make an attempt for proper grammar. Many on these boards do not have english as native language. 2. Do not type compressed textblocks. They are hard to read. 3. Even if You consider You may have some valid point, please treat every one else with some respect. 4. Change Your ridiculous user name or I will do it for You. :yell: :whip: :master: Edited by Homdax on 13-03-2006 07:52 king-o'da'bigfile
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| lolroflroflcakes |
Posted on 13-03-2006 07:55
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Posts: 9 Joined: March 10 2006 |
i was just responding in knid to the guy before me he doesn't treat me with respect so i treat him the same if you want it to stop dont just take to me take to him aswell. and there are other people with names that make less sense than mine. so just leave me alone man i haven't done anything wrong. |
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| Homdax |
Posted on 13-03-2006 08:03
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Posts: 762 Joined: August 30 2005 |
You deserved that reply for ignorance. Submarine orientation is well known by Itharu and others. If you take offense, get over it. Please comply with my other requests. king-o'da'bigfile
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