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A concept.... positron/electron weaponry...
swordmaster2k1
Okay, I only read one page of this post so this might have been addressed already, but here's an idea for the deployment option: while yes, antimatter is expensive to produce, it only requires very little to be destructive. Instead of launching these things directly into battle as an offensive weapon where you have the whole problem of the Vagyr LDS and such as well as ship damage, why not have it be a defensive weapon? This may go contrary to the PDS philosophy (I only just got it) but it's such a devious idea that no military would pass it up. Antimatter mines. You have a dedicated craft hold these things. Since it doesn't produce the antimatter, and the mines themselves are self-contained, the crafts' power could be devoted to ECM and maybe cloaking tech. The craft could slip into asteroid belts or dust clouds where the enemy is either likely to approach from or use as a resource operation, lay it's mines, and slip out relatively undetected. The mines don't really emit anything so they look like just rocks or dense dust, and the antimatter reaction is so powerful, they may not need drives to get close (or they could just channel the antimatter into a drive).
Battle fleet attempts to approach undetected through dust cloud, mines detect fleet with passive sensors, blow up when within range and there goes half of the fleet with just a couple of mines. In addition or instead of ECM/cloaking, the minelayer could be equipped with a hyperdrive so it can jet in, lay its mines, and jet out. Even if noticed, the enemy wouldn't dare approach the area for the sheer chance that these nasty little buggers might be hiding there.
Just a thought to solve the containment/deployment issue because frankly, I just love antimatter...
Captain Fencer Unio aka "The Bengal"
 
RagingBlueWind
i think (not sure) that cloaking has become obsolete due to advanced sensor technology (correct me if im wrong). however, the idea of AM mines is definately a new one, and one that IMO avoids the problems of premature detonation. I have no idea how mine technology has developed however, and the lack of mine layers currently makes me think they might have become obsolete as well... again though im not sure so if someone more well versed could fill in...

On the other hand though, you better make sure you dont have any AM minelayers in your hangers or main engagement fleet cause then we're back to square one with storing AM.
 
TelQuessir
Forget about using dust clouds for tactical advantages, the exploitation of celestial phenomena is on the operational to strategic level.

Tactical range in space, although large on paper (6000km) is having a firefight on a barren field with no cover - stock HW2 tactics should be thrown out of the window.

I would say that if you want to use minefields, they are deterrent weapons on the tactical scale - deploying them to saturate say, high orbit range around a planet would require too many mines to be useful, plus they may be neutralised by either outmaneuvering or standoff bombardment.
 
RagingBlueWind
considering the power of anti matter however, i dont think you would need that many mines to saturate high orbit range. one ever fifty to even a hundred or more kilometers(depending on the size of the warhead) would probably be sufficent. that being said tho...

AM as a planetary bombardment weapon would be utterly devastating. if you manage to secure the space around a planet, you could probably bring in specialized AM planetary bombardment vesseles. even if a planet has some kind of defense system, i would think it seriously lacking compared to a dedicated warship. plus, the immovability of a planet (compared to a starship of course) would mean bombardment from outside the range of a planets defenses, and any interception, even remotely close to a planets surface, or even atmosphere would deal significant damage due to the amount of heat and the shockwave that would form if it detonated in the atmosphere. of course... i have no idea when you'd actually use this in HW2 considering we've never really made planetary bombardment part of gameplay.
 
swordmaster2k1

Quote

TelQuessir wrote:
Forget about using dust clouds for tactical advantages, the exploitation of celestial phenomena is on the operational to strategic level.

Tactical range in space, although large on paper (6000km) is having a firefight on a barren field with no cover - stock HW2 tactics should be thrown out of the window.

I would say that if you want to use minefields, they are deterrent weapons on the tactical scale - deploying them to saturate say, high orbit range around a planet would require too many mines to be useful, plus they may be neutralised by either outmaneuvering or standoff bombardment.


Okay, so how about resource belts or just plain likely avenues of approach? The mines don't have to be very big and with passive sensors, ships will go crazy trying to blast every rock in their way especially considering the possible blast radius antimatter mines may have.
Captain Fencer Unio aka "The Bengal"
 
TelQuessir
Likely avenue of approach in open space is everywhere.

Constraining those avenues of approach - now that's something related to tactical planning and maneuvering, yes?

As for orbit saturation - one mine every 100km means you still need twenty thousand mines around a planet to have a sphere of defenses - even then it is still a single-layer thing. Lousy density.
 
Berrik
A positron cannon would have a high degree of efficiency against all types of armor, and have the bonus of irradiating whatever it hit as the target's matter breaks down.

The downside? Power requirements would be rather immense. Particle accelerators are not easy to power.

edit: However, since management of magnetic fields is already well established in PDS and HW2 in general, containment would likely not be as much of an issue.

Also, re the Gundam comment, that's obviously where the laser pulse thrusters came from a while back. METEOR units from Gundam SEED, anyone?
Edited by Berrik on 31-10-2005 06:18
 
Nemmerle
As I understand it the ships use particle accelerators already so they should be able to cope with the power demands easily.

On mines: If you're putting a minefield in orbit it wouldn't have to be a static thing though, yes it might have a lousy density but if it's rotating around the planet at a few tens of thousands of miles an hour then that doesn't much matter.
Obviously you'd have to set up a matrix of them, or a multiple later thing so that a ship couldn't just match it and then slip through, but still you've the manufacturing resources of an entire planet a few hundred thousand stealthed mines should be negligible resources to expend really, especially when you consider how far manufacturing technology would have advanced.
Edited by Nemmerle on 01-11-2005 16:55
 
Cobalt Shiva
My general view on antimatter is that the extreme danger of manufacture, transport, and deployment outweighs the potential damage to the enemy.

You can't put antimatter 'on safe.' A single antimatter warhead striking an enemy vessel is powerful; a single mass-driver round knocking containment off YOUR cruiser's antimatter reserves is instantly lethal.

Mines seem like a better use, but remember that all area-effect weapons are severely limited in space, there being no atmosphere to carry the blast wave.

I would advance the conclusion that antimatter will not be used in the PDSverse for several technical generations (years of real time), but speculation about future uses is excellent. I point to Peter Hamilton's Night's Dawn Trilogy as an excellent resource on the problems and uses of antimatter in a military environment.
"This is tactical control..."
 
Glacialis
Another Night's Dawn reader Eeeexcelent.

Do you remember the EE rounds used in the heavy groundfighting? Effective against the , if only in stunning them. I want to find more data on them to see if they'd be useful and feasible in the HW universe.
 
Cobalt Shiva
Some kind of 'electron explosive', wasn't it? Let me read through my copies and see if I can find anything out.

That series has some of the best military tech I've ever seen.
"This is tactical control..."
 
Nemmerle
Heh, yeah EE rounds were fired from the Gaussguns in a mixture with fragmentation rounds, no idea how they're meant to work but they seemed quite destructive. Edit: Hmm, page 654 book 1, 'detonating in hard vicious gouts of ionic flame'

I wonder if we could get something similar to the Serjents for use as spec-ops infantry/fighter pilots.

Oh and with antimatter mines, surely you'd only release the containment field on the side touching the ship, it doesn't need to be an area weapon.
Edited by Nemmerle on 01-11-2005 19:22
 
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