View Thread
 Print Thread
Homeworld politics
MDD
I was wondering if there was anyone out there who feels like they have a good grasp on the political situation in the Homeworld-verse, and if they could try and summarize it here?

I have a lot of questions about the structure of the various factional governments and how these governments interact with various defense contractors (if there are any) and with all of the other factions.
 
Inert
I know the workings of the Hiigaran political system.

The government body is known as the New Diamid, which contains all the representatives of each faction, which are known as Kiith-Sa's. There has not been a recorded number of Kiith-Sa's per faction, but I believe it is based on the population within each faction. Thus it would hold true when in HW:C they mentioned that 6 houses were too powerful, that it means they held a large portion of votes.

Either way, the New Diamid works much like the US Congress does, except without a Senate. Each Kiith-Sa represent his/her own faction, which in turn communicates with the Kiith (clan) as a whole. They are basically a democracy within each Kiithid (plural). Kiith work like countries, they trade, wage war, etc. However there has not been much conflict between the Hiigarans after the journey of the mothership. (there was a big crusade known as the Heresy Wars before).

However, it is such that now lesser Kiithid are battling for their own rights, such as the Som-taaw once did.

That is what I gleamed from reading canon.
 
TelQuessir
And everything besides the Hiigaran government structure above in the PDSverse is distinctly non-canon. We write our own stuff there.

PDS manual II slated for a post-v7.0 release will document that.
 
MDD
Guess I'll have to be patient then.
 
yasotay
There is a Diiamid. It has Kiith representation. The Kiith'sa is the senior family member and representative to the Diiamid. As the Hiigaran inherated a large number of Taiidan and others with the demise of the Empire of Taiidan, there is a large segment of "Kiithless" who are part of the Hiigaran Star Nation. They also have a vote.

As there is a war of existence going on at the moment, any internal squabbles between the varios segments have been put aside to defeat the common foe(s)

The Vaygr come in two flavors; The Armada and the Independent Vaygr Force. The Armada is under the control of the S'rekam, who are one of the last great clans that had been trusted by Makaan with the war effort. The S'rekam Kram is the clan leader (a Kiith'sa equivalent). He is trying to fight the Hiigaran's into exhaustion so as to keep what gains the Vaygr have made in their holdings.

The Independents are the remains of the van of the Armada and the rag tag elements of the great houses. They have coallesed into a group trying to get back the the Reaches to recoup their clans. The Armada does not want to let them return because they are dishonored and more importantly they do not want the folks at home to get discouraged that the war is going less than great for the Vaygr.

The Imperial Taiidan faction is currently buying time by providing technology to the Vaygr and slowly gaining control of more and more of the former Taiidan space that was the Republic of Taiidan. They are happy to allow the Vaygr and Hiigaran's kill each other while they continue to slowly gain strength. Their Vaygr overlords though are about to make them take an active roll in the war.

The Republic of Taiidan exist in name only. A million refugees in Hiigaran space and a rumored government in exile is all that exist of the prewar nation.

There are other Star Nations and such that may play a part. This is just my rambling on at the state of the PDS'verse. C/FDB will be the one to say if it is accurate or not.
 
TelQuessir
This is a nice, updated version of what we had accepted as a strategic overview of the Post Invasion situation, early this year.

There are some disreptancies between my version and yours but they can pass off nicely in the writer's point of view. Which is a good thing.

The "other star nations" are those created by Norsehound, and what I had pulled out of the HW2 concept documents.

The Federation of Cush is a generally, second-world star nation (in laymans terms) which is presently allied to Hiigara for purposes of protection and technological assistance. They provide the Hiigarans with ample location to base offworld industrial capability on (in the early days of the Republic this is critical) and also no small measure of resources from mining.

The Nalthorans are the first "neutral" star nation to have the dubious honor of being subjected to Vagyr attack, for their stubborn resistance the Nalthoran homeworlds were subjected to orbital annihilation. However this bought the time necessary for their 15 crash-built or refitted interstellar liners packed with people from all walks of Nalthoran life to flee to Hiigara. Thus unknown to Vagyr intelligence, the Nalthorans as a civilisation as well as their leader, Queen Ajiras, survive, and the liners have been converted into powerful strategic recon assets with battlecruiser class combat capability.

The third major star nation, Elyssia, is presently neutral at this point but leans heavily towards the Hiigaran Republic. Their borders have been constantly probed by Vagyr (Loyalist) and Turanic forces and they have steadily lost border assets and colonies to the invaders.

Given the widespread knowledge of the Turanic people being supporters and contributors to Makaan's crusader to Hiigara, the rest can be imagined.

The IVF have converted the devastated Naltoran worlds into highly militarised bastions - and are showing no signs of leaving but rather use that location as a base for offensive operations against the Loyalists. This ill-placement puts them at odds with the Hiigarans and their Naltoran allies.

But on another front - the Karelian cluster, Hiigaran Eighth Fleet, the indepdendent Vagyr House Mar'yan, along with HGN special operations detachments and indigenous defense forces form an unsteady coalition against what amounts to a multi-vector attack by Vagyr Loyalists supported or masterminded by a very limited number of "Second Empire" Taiidani units.

The IVF has a very dynamic demographic - some of their population are the "just want to go home" mentality, but others are warriors who had simply, enough of the way Makaan had thrown the entire Vagyr civilisation into waste - thus vow to undo what was wrought. It is a part of this fraction that House Mar'yan refused to support the Crusade, taking heavy casualties against "reprisal" actions but had managed to scratch up a first-rate military fleet as more Independents joined their cause and as the Loyalists fought a losing battle against the Hiigaran Navy.

At some point of time they had relocated their entire House (and fleet) to the Karelian Cluster, which had been abandoned by Hiigaran Navy task forces as Karan S'jet called for a general withdrawal to Hiigara. As such the Cluster and its one million plus colonist population was left to their own devices.

How House Mar'yan had achieved any rapport with the Hiigaran colonists is yet unknown, but the results of that can be seen today.

There is no line of communication between the Nalthoran-space IVF, and the Karelian IVF, thus they may be referred to as separate "star nations" forged in the trials of war.
Edited by TelQuessir on 28-09-2005 05:58
 
MDD
When you say government in exile are we talking something similar to the DeGaulle WW2 french way or something different? Would the Taiidani have any outside support for a resurgence? From what they did to the Hiigarans it doesn't seem like they were a very humanistic government, I don't think the galaxy at large is to eager to see them back in power.

(EDIT: I thought i had posted this right after yasotay. Got out of order.)
Edited by MDD on 28-09-2005 23:07
 
TelQuessir
I answered that with a concept for a "grand alliance" type situation, as above, which can bring the war to a very quick end.
 
Norsehound
How I saw it:

THE ALLIANCE:

Hiigara: The 'space analog' of Western Civilization... with America as a model. They have the Daiimid of assembled Kiith representatives that govern the administrative and diplomatic affairs of the Hiigaran people.

Cush: The Cush are distant relations to the ancient Kushans (ancient Hiigarans) and currently exist as a protectorate of the greater Hiigara. For the most part they use customized hull of Hiigaran ships for thier own use, as they slowly regain their production capabilities.

Elyssia: Think of them as an analoge to the EU. They are an assembly of various smaller countries grouped together in a way we group europe today. They have a EU council, but it's sole function is to direct the assembled Elyssian nations in a common heading and to administer their war efforts. The council is also tasked to deal with 'outside empires'- but nothing stops individual establishments from forming thier own political ties.

Taiidani Republic: The Taiidani republic is all that remains of the republic seen in HW:C. Before their destruction at Makaan's hands, the Republic was just that- a loos republic governed by a senate and watched by the courts. After the invasion of Republic space, what few senators that escaped have formed a loose copy of the Republic in a number of star systems somewhere off-plain from the rest of the galaxy. Their 'military' is comprised of whatever national guard fleets that could escape the republic's demise, or whomever has volunteered to operate as Hiigaran units in various fleets.

Kadesh: This remote area is the space surrounding and including the great nebula visited in HW1. They are not a significant participant in the Vaygr-Hiigaran war because of their remoteness and focus on the defense of their space. They are the descendants of whatever Kadeshi to survive the Hiigaran passing.

Itaar: A small nation 'north' of the Hiigarans- they are but one of the many nations in that area of space that were formerly joined to the Galactic Council. With no respectable force of thier own, Itaar was forced to purchase older Hiigaran ships and technology to ward off Taiidani expansionistic tendancies. Politically they have a loose monarchy that is simliar to the system great Brittan applies today. The only difference is that the leading Monarch is a direct participant in both parliaments.

THE COALITION:

Armada De Makaan (Vaygr): These are the typcial black-and-white Vaygr encountered in the stock SP campaign. They are the former acolytes of Makaan's will, and even with a disposed leader the momentum from Makaan's death drives them to accomplish his goals. They have a loose leadership of whoever survived of Makaan's staff, but generally have the same goal: Galactic conquest.

Imperial Taiidani: The remnants of the Taiidani Empire from Riesstiu's rule quickly took control of the few Taiidani that refused to become a republic to form the new Taiidani empire in the space of what used to be a stellar empire obliterated centuries ago by an unknown force. Today, the Imperial Taiidani is an oligarchy ruled by a board of admirals that govern the various provinces of Taiidani space. They are the equivelant of feudal warlords, governing each of their assigned provices by force or through diplomatic skill. With the conclusion of a 'formal' treaty between the Taiidani and Vaygr there is some animosity from the Taiidani to the Vaygr, which has caused some political unrest as of late. If unchecked this unrest could lead into a second Taiidani civil war.

Distant Vaygr: These scattered tribes are the few that rejected Makaan's rule and exist on the fringes of Vaygr space to the east on the galactic rim. They are treated here as an independant, yet unstable, political entity. In the distant reaches, the Vaygr still use primitive ships that are obsolite closer to the core.

Turanic Kingdoms: Forged by the inclusion of Imperial elements into their fold, some powerful figures among the raiders fasioned themselves into 'Kings' and built small, but significant kingdoms in the distant reaches of the galaxy. With some of their roots to the Vaygr in the distant past, the Turanic raiders play a little role at present in the grand scale between the two sides. The Turanics themselves prefer to deal with the Vaygr, as the two sides can form some kind of mutual understanding on the harsh enviroments where they live (The rim).

INDEPENDANT NATION/STATES:

The Independant Vaygr Federation: This term is loosely applied to the hundreds of Vaygr Clans and Tribes that became disillusioned after Makaan's death. Unable to return to their ancestral homeworlds in fear of interdiction by the Armada, instead they are forced to remain perilously on the border between the Hiigarans and the Vaygr Armada. One significant group is housed in Nalthor, and has set up some kind of working assembly comprised of the 35 clans there. They have adopted the formal name 'Independant vaygr Federation', and respond to that name when given.
Resigned.
 
TelQuessir
Norsehound, consider that a very decisive addition to the PDS manual II effort. Good to have you back.

Relaxation - proposal on Hiigaran corporate outlook accepted. Speak to me sometime about that, it can be developed further.
 
MDD
I was looking around on the relic forum the other day and it appears that a Homeworld 3 is not forthcoming. Is it the intention to develop PDS into something that could be called a sequel? I think that many of the details for that sort of project are already in place.
 
yasotay
One of the biggest differences in my writtings is that the ImpTaii are slowly gaining accendence, while the exiled (hiding actually) Republican leaders argue on fighting back or remaining in hiding. The RepTaii Refugees will form into a Free Taiidan Force under the former Consul of the Taiidan.

In that respect it is very simular to DeGaulle.
 
TelQuessir
In that case I will need some fluff on the political aspect of things in the Taiidani corner of the galaxy.

Otherwise strategic movements etc are already well documented at this point of time.
 
Norsehound
Of what nature? Imperial or Republic?

I havent touched RYBW (Fic section) in a while, but it would eventually explode into a second Taiidani civil war between the 'Loyalist' (Pro Riesstiu) forces and the Taiidani-Vaygr (A pro-Vaygr force comprised of 'traditionalist Taiidani (anti-Riesstiu and Anti-Republic)' forces, Vaygr-Taiidani clans and tribes, and whatever IVF Vagr want to participate in the fun).

I state this here because I cannot gurantee RYBW's completion. I am also uncertain of the opinion of this board to such a notion, as it seems many here are comfertable with 'off map wars' (Wars not directly involving the ships represented in the game... for now.)
Edited by Norsehound on 29-09-2005 08:39
Resigned.
 
schumador
Qualifier: I don't know much about the PDS political universe, but based off of all the HW's I've played, plus lurking, here are some thoughts:


THE ALLIANCE:

Hiigara: "The 'space analog' of Western Civilization... with America as a model." Does this mean that Hiigara will become drunk on its power as America has, and become that which it was supposed to oppose: the oppressor?

Cush: Did they ever appear in any of the HW games/scenarios? I can't remember ever seeing/hearing of them...

Elyssia: "Think of them as an analoge to the EU." So they are rich but comparatively weak, militarily. They allow the U.S. to be the attack dog of the West (and therefore they can focus their resources elsewhere).

Taiidani Republic: So they are on the periphery of Vagyr-controlled space, and weak. Will they ever show up in the PDS universe, for instance in an auxiliary role?

Kadesh: Really? Part of the Alliance? That is surprising, since they are hard-core xenophobic religious fanatics. I would think that at best they would be considered "neutral", at worst a Rogue state...

Itaar: .."Itaar was forced to purchase older Hiigaran ships and technology..." - how old? HW:1-era? It might be kind of cool to see older hulls show up in some scenario, where the Itaari have agreed to help out with escort duties for convoys, etc. Not front-line stuff, obviously...

Nalthor: These were left off of this list, but were mentioned in the thread... They seem to me to be the proto-Vagyr - here's why: Their home systems get destroyed, but they escape with a good chunk of their people and some decent firepower. Disillusioned with the prospect of "settling down" on another world(s), they instead adopt a gypsy mentality, building huge city-ships and wandering the stars. They travel from resource to resource, always a step ahead of their enemies - but heavily armed. Like the Sobanii, but with heavier firepower, these angry survivors greedily take part in anti-Vagyr operations.... Or they could do what the Kushans did, and build up an enormous fleet (with allies) and re-take their home systems - on a shorter timeframe than the Kushans, of course....


THE COALITION:

Armada De Makaan (Vaygr): So the worlds/systems that they have taken over - they are now homeworlds to this Vagyr incursion? Or are they simply locations where slave/mineral resources can be harvested from? Or both, I suppose....

Imperial Taiidani: I assume that the Imperial Taiidani hate the Hiigarans, since that is the group which deposed them. I think that would make them very flexible in their dealings with the Vagyr - ergo the technology being passed to them (like the Quar-Jet). And since they are supposed to be in ascendance, at which point do they take a more direct retribution out on the HGN? Like starting off with Imp. Taiidani ships guarding Vagyr convoys/resources?

Distant Vaygr: Are they politically significant at all? Low-tech and far away - *and* neutral?

Turanic Kingdoms: I miss the Turanic Raiders. In fact, shouldn't they be shoulder-to-shoulder with the Vagyr - I mean really, they are pirates, jackals. They should be feasting on the remains of the fallen, showing up to finish off the survivors of battle, salvaging debris, taking over wounded ships for scrap or to assimilate into their own fleets. The Vagyr are the perfect destabilizing force - think of all of the refugees, the defenseless convoys, the opportunities for pirate nations when their neighbors fall (and to *help* them fall).... The Turanic Kingdoms make sense in a Vagyr Coalition - I would love to see some of them show up to join in the party at some point, though...

INDEPENDANT NATION/STATES:

The Independant Vaygr Federation: Sounds like there is a Nalthoran IVF and a Karelian IVF - but are they unified diplomatically? I wonder... "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" - so when do the IVF get propositioned by the HGN?

Shouldn't the Kadeshi be in this category (Neutral)?

Are *all* of the Turanic Kingdoms allied with the Vagyr? I would think that as they grew up and matured into actual states, that they would be inclined to make smarter choices when it comes to alliances. Those bordering Hiigaran space might join with the HGN in repulsing the Vagyr - others might be strictly neutral....



I had a longer post on this earlier, but it was wiped out when I posted it - something about having timed out of my login with the website and having to log back in to post - I lost it all... so these are what's left over from my brain.
Edited by schumador on 06-10-2005 16:40
 
Unkn0wn
It is possible that the Kadeshi could have undergone a revolution between the HW1 error and the PDS era and aren't as religiously motivated as before. This in itself could have come from the events of Homeworld 1 when the Kadeshi populace saw that all the power of the priesthood was not enough to stop a hostile force from crossing the gardens, even when they had the tactical upper hand. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that some even emigrated to Hiigara after the conclusion of the Homeworld war.

However, putting the Kadeshi under the Alliance does seem a little strange. Does this mean that they have some sort of wartime agreement with some of the Alliance nations? For example, only raiding Coalition vessels or perhaps even some sort of technology exchange deal? Perhaps even training Alliance forces in the art of convoy raiding. This sort of thing would allow them to stay near their nebula yet still be active members in the Alliance.
Edited by Unkn0wn on 06-10-2005 16:47
0wn3d
b0n3d
unkn0wn3d
 
Inert
I agree that the Kadeshi would -not- assist any other star faring culture other then themselves within their borders.

This is completely ignoring the fact that they are dead. (contrary to many fan-fic beliefs)

This is not to say there are not many Kadeshi sympathizers who would ressurect their cultish ways.
 
Norsehound
The Kadesh are grouped with the alliance because, if anybody, the Kadeshi are friendly to the Hiigarans. They aren't the direct descendants of the origional Kadeshi... but are what's left of the prisoners taken when the Kushans pased through there (What!? You didn't capture the MBFs?) Theirs is a culture that is influenced by Hiigaran tradition, so they aren't the 1:1 Kadeshi encountered from HW1. As for thier role; it's trancelucent. If anything they have an advisory role to the Hiigarans.

The Turanics aren't a bunch of vultures anymore. I saw them as a very early star empire, lead by loose monarchies of very powerful people that banded the tribes together into kingdoms. They're just turning from raiding and pillaging to making real star empires and keeping formitable navies. I wanted to introduce the Turanic Huscarles as very professfional fighters that are tough to kill and very dangerous in their home areas of space.

The Distant Vaygr, like the Vaygr on the front lines, are more sympathetic to the Vaygr than the Hiigarans. They also have a translucent role as a factor back home... despite being somewhat hostile to the ADM.

I didn't see the Nalthorians as Gypsies- they have a 'homeworld' on the Port of Nalthor, which was the one shipyard the Hiigarans built for them until Nalthor is retaken.
Resigned.
 
Inert
The Kadeshi are now, in my opinion, a ghost of a religion. Something that was transferred from the passage through the gardens. Their influence affects a portion of Hiigarans that sympathized with them and would gladly call them their kin (though evolutionary differences may say otherwise!). These Kadeshi sympathizers could in-turn form a Kiith in honor of their history, which would mean that the Kadeshi exist to date.

However, I do not believe true Kadeshi live to this day. While I must admit, I did capture MBFs (had 24 in wall formation), I do not think the developers intended the Kadeshi to live after the passage through the gardens.

------------

My opinion on the Turanic Raiders has somewhat changed as of late. I also think they are becoming more of a force then just pirates. They are settling down, seizing power and becoming a more permanent force in the trade lanes. With any hope, they will rally their own force and claim the Great Wastelands (god knows they already have taken it over!) as their territory.

I don't think they're organized yet, as I still treat them as a multi-faction society, but I do think they will rally under a single banner yet.
 
Norsehound
To be honest, my inclusion of the Kadeshi in the Homeworld Universe was from a fiction venture of mine tracing the birth, death, and evolution of the Kadeshi people from thier origins in the gardens to what became of the Kadesh in the Hw2 period.

I say what few Kadeshi prisoners were rescued petitioned for thier own Kiith status (after making landfall on Hiigara), rather than being absorbed into other Kiith. For a time they lived on Hiigara until they became appauled by the political manuverings in the Daiimid. When it was their turn to use the mothership's construction facilities, they built a modernized needleship and set out to return to kadeshi with supplies to reconstitute the protectorate.

So while a new form of Kadeshi exist, it is influenced by a period of time among the Hiigarans, and even includes some intermarried families from other Kiith. They also have some Hiigran ideals, and maintain a fleet ouside of swarmers, needleships, and MBFs. They do however use what they can understand of their forebears technology.

----------------

I think my perception is the same about the Turanics, if only slightly more advanced down the timeline. There are 'kingdoms', per se, but there still remain bandit privateers wandering in the great wastelands.

If you mean to suggest that eventually they'll be one powerful empire like the Hiigarans, I disagree. They are at best another brand of vaygr- loose tribes with seperate motivations for war. Since they have ancient ties with the Vaygr (posted somewhere on the old boards...) they would gladly join with their distant relations to pillage and seize the rich core worlds.

And the only 'single banner' they'll rally under is one of a common directive. There would probably be some Turanic kings that would rather take a Hiigaran bribe twice the sum of whatever the Vaygr could offer. Other than that, the only things the Turanics really share are some common ships and technologies.
Resigned.
 
Jump to Forum