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 Cultural Advancements
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| jigga_what |
Posted on 27-01-2006 04:11
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 Posts: 28 Joined: January 15 2006 |
I'm not exactly sure where this post would go, so I took the liberty of creating a new thread, I hope that is okay. Anyway, I was just sitting here replying to Inerts post on our talk about EMP marine firgates and I said something about how Higaran society is advanced technologically well beyond ours,and I thought that they were culturally more advanced than us. I think their cultural advancement by far outweighs their tech advances. I would say they are 300-400 years ahead of us techwise (Potentially much less if the world ever got its shit together.) But they are magnificently more advanced in their concept of "Nation". They are a people that have an empire on the galactic scale. They cover, I assume hundreds of planets, maybe and likely many more. But as far as I see they all still see themselves as Higarans. We havn't even come close to a world society, one in which we all see ourselves as Terrans and I suppose it will take the intervention of another intelligent species to unify our species yes? We still have large advanced civilizations that identify more with their tribes than with a Nation. We have a long way to go until we reach a sense of "Earthling" let alone a sense of Country on a galactic scale... anyone have any thoughts on this? I apologize if this a lame post. |
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| Inert |
Posted on 27-01-2006 05:19
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 Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
As far as I can tell, struggle constitutes unification. Althought there has never been a whole world threat, there have been many subcategories of combined strength in over throwing potent evils. For example, the French revolution. During the late 1700s, the peasant (includes middle class "bourgeoisie") population accounted for 98% of France. Even though it was a large number, they were able to effectively combine arms to overthrow the French monarchy. In times of danger, people will combine arms to fend off it, regardless of differences between us. The Hiigarans have been under a constant threat, from the Turanic Raiders to the Taiidani to the Vaygr. It's one of the most intense struggles that I could think of, and it would make sense that they combine arms to do this. Edited by Inert on 31-01-2006 01:14 |
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| jigga_what |
Posted on 27-01-2006 05:55
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Posts: 28 Joined: January 15 2006 |
I have been under the impression that a very considerable amount of time passes between HW1 and HW2. Something like 3000 years right? I could be way wrong. I do agree though that struggle is unifying, whether it is their Exodus or their wars. I'm not sure I know what the canon is on their (Higarans) form of government...are they an empire? Some sort of a republic? |
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| Sun Tzu |
Posted on 27-01-2006 09:00
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 Posts: 528 Joined: September 08 2005 |
I don't think the French Revolution is a good example of that but I agree a struggle against an outside threat is a powerful unification factor of a nation. As far as I understand, Hiigaran's government is of a tribal form with a council where all Kiiths/families are represented. No universal suffrage. That does not really match your assumption that they are culturally advanced. |
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| Inert |
Posted on 27-01-2006 15:27
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Posts: 388 Joined: September 08 2005 |
The time between HW1 and HW2 is very slight. HW1 or the "exodus" took only 6 months. After that, 100 years passed until the Vaygr excursion. The Hiigaran structure is, in essence, a republic. Every Kiith (faction) has one Kiith-sa who decides things inside the New Diamid. The things the Kiith-sa decides on are voted for by the faction. |
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| jigga_what |
Posted on 27-01-2006 19:19
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Posts: 28 Joined: January 15 2006 |
That seems to me like a form of representative government. I don't think the whole lack of universal suffrage indicates a less advanced culture. Democracy is someting to aspire to sure, but in his Dune books the great Frank Herbert makes plenty of great arguments for Pharonic Emperors. Especially in a universe as plagued with war as HW2. The greatest and longest lasting empires ever have nearly all held that concept of their leader being "God-emperor".... |
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| Sun Tzu |
Posted on 28-01-2006 00:04
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Posts: 528 Joined: September 08 2005 |
*falls off his chair* I don't think I'll argue about the degree of cultural development implied by a council of capifamiglia or a god-emperor. Let's say they are more fun... but only in a game!  |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 30-01-2006 03:56
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 Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Cultural improvement over time might be a natural fact to us but the reverse has also been true in history, so the Vagyr are a deliberate testamount to that occurance. "60th Century" technology coupled with medieval culture, what fun to try and imagine. |
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| Neix |
Posted on 21-02-2006 05:48
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Posts: 6 Joined: February 21 2006 |
Quote Sun Tzu wrote: I don't think the French Revolution is a good example of that but I agree a struggle against an outside threat is a powerful unification factor of a nation. No, but the fight against Hitler sure fits the bill. You can fly, you can fight, and you can crow.
Keeping the memories alive. |
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| TelQuessir |
Posted on 21-02-2006 06:24
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Posts: 2598 Joined: August 30 2005 |
Someone mentions that alien invasion plots = good because of the unification factor. I say nay to that - for the example Neix posted. We don't need no "alien invasion" nonsense to simulate the unifying effect of having a common foe. For the existing PDS universe an example of a "honored enemy" type of relationship in a RL history context might be useful seeing the impractical Makaanist regime fall victim to the same problem the Axis Powers faced in WW2. Of course I am speaking of creating a civil war context with which to experiment with in the PDSverse. Now, back on topic - how does this relate to cultural advancement? Same story as for WW1 and 2 at the end of it all - having a united nations type organisation spawn from the hell of open warfare (for little real gain) would be a decidedly superior option than aiming to eradicate one's "enemies" from the face of the galaxy. We are not going for the Rebel Alliance vs Empire thing - as we had many occurance of such already in Homeworld history and present. Note too, of the casualty levels involved in a full scale planetary siege involving major fleet battles and following that, bombardment and invasion. Reference that to the conceptual Invasion of Japan in 1946. The UN concept is already represented by Hiigara, which is the major power looking after a little coalition of less advanced star nations. Edited by TelQuessir on 21-02-2006 06:28 |
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| Itharu |
Posted on 21-02-2006 13:47
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 Posts: 363 Joined: September 23 2005 |
Quote TelQuessir wrote: Cultural improvement over time might be a natural fact to us but the reverse has also been true in history, so the Vagyr are a deliberate testamount to that occurance. "60th Century" technology coupled with medieval culture, what fun to try and imagine. Doesn't seem all that impossible. I have some stories that revolve around an empire more or less how you discribed. They have all this tech, are sprawled far in the galaxy with their empire, but hold a high code of kinghts honor. So now things are looking towards a mirroring of the UN, except that the Hiigarians are looking after the weaker peoples. That could be draining to their resouces and not to mention some of the Hiigarians who might not enjoy that charity. Although they seem very united, there have been a few times when not all have been seeing the same path. I hate to say it, but Cataclysm had the first sort of Hiigarian disadent who was more than upset at the loss of his wife. He took matters into his own hands and went off to fight who ever. He hasn't been heard from since. That could be a good civil war catalyst, if they consider him still Hiigarian. -Fear the Might of the Imperial Cortharian Fleet
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| yasotay |
Posted on 23-02-2006 03:00
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 Posts: 637 Joined: September 09 2005 |
At the risk of missing the boat with the topic I think that the HW universe, and the PDS'verse in particular has all the social and societal variation one can see here on good old earth. We can even argue that the PDS'verse (post Makaan invasion) mimics the world after the Cold War. In PDS'verse the cold war was represented by the Taiiidan Empire and the Galactic Council stand off. With the return of the Hiigaran's (which led to the collapse of the teetering Empire) the galaxy is now in a stage of serious flux as societal groups attempt to adjust to the power vacuum left by the end of central authority. Repressed social factions (although several thousand years is a stretch) seeing opportunity to redress long held grievances are surfacing. As to the possiblity of a medival culture in the 60th Century... why not we have the House of Saud in the 21st!?! Edited by yasotay on 23-02-2006 03:02 |
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